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Energizer
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Does anyone know of any one-on-one mentalism effects that are Freudian or psychodynamic in their presentation please? Post-Freudian presentations also welcome!


I'm a big fan of psychodynamic theory and would be delighted to discover any effects that involve patter along the lines of defense mechanisms (such as confabulations and rationalisations), unconscious motivations, transference and counter-transference, scripts learned in childhood, dream analysis, free association … etc.

But let's please leave presentations involving Jung's concepts of synchronicity and the collective unconscious out of this discussion. Having said that presentations involving archetypal symbols welcome, but as long as they are heavy on the theory and don't just involve symbols for symbols sake (for example by introducing a tarot deck).

So basically I'm looking for ways of including psychodynamic theory into mentalism.

Thanks!
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
BH_Magic
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Yes, I know of a few - but is this with the intent of entertaining an audience or passing them off as truths? The latter I'm quite uncomfortable with...
Energizer
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Er - both! With the intent of entertaining and with the intent of passing on the theory as ... a sort of truth - like most scientific knowledge, it is 'true' untill a better theory comes and replaces it.

But I would try not to leave the spec confused and misled or believing in ESP or genuine mindreading. I would try to be ethical in that regard.

Please remember I'm looking for one-on-one close up stuff.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
coupcoupdaddy
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Roth's REFLECTIONS would be more than appropriate within the parameters of your request. Highly recommended.
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BH_Magic
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Ah, okay. I will sit this one out then...

Quote:
On 2007-07-18 09:09, Olly Crofton wrote:
like most scientific knowledge, it is 'true' untill a better theory comes and replaces it.


There is a lot of research showing that the Psychoanalytical approach to therapy does more harm than good; the Wish Fulfilment Theory of Dreaming really has been demonstrated to be pretty inaccurate too - which is why I don't believe it right to suggest these things as definite fact. Perhaps as a curious patter line, but not absolute truth.

I don't want to get off topic though so I'll say no more.
Mentalisten
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I think you should be careful when presenting it ie. are you intending to give the spectator some type of therapy or possible psuedo-psychodynamic 'insight' which may leave them worried etc.

As a psychologist I tend to apply psychodynamic and other psychological patter when creating a routine but am very careful to avoid the above problems. A quick example (made up now) could see you giving some patter about free association and how it can often give you insight into the unconcsious. Ask if they would like to try it out and if so have them free associate for a bit and then suddenly stop them. Say you have an idea now and you write a word. Ask them to say another word and then reveal that that is the word you knew would come next... or something like that. Keep it entertaining and light.

Regards
Ross
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Energizer
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Thanks for your comments so far guys!

Just to be clear - I would never ever, ever dream of using my effects as a therapy session - as some magicians suggest is possible. I understand your concerns here. I am concerned about magicians doing this too! That is something I'd simply never do.

I am well aware that psychoanalytic therapy is not the best therapy for many problems, (but may be appropriate for others).

But it is the theory that I am more interested in, rather than the therapy (although I find the therapeutic techniques fascinating). That is what I'd hope to get across in my routines.

I would not present psychodynamic theory as absolute truth. Just as a provisional temporary truth - and one truth among other competing truths about the mind (such as the cognitive and social constructionist perspectives). Having said that, I don't think anyone can deny that we are partially motivated by psychic forces which we may not be conscious of, and we are influenced by the events and people or our early childhood. And I don't think we can deny that we may sometimes behave in bizarre ways for reasons that are unknown to us, but which may be obvious to others.

Also, I'm more interested in the object relations school of psychodynamics rather than Freudian theory. I put that in for the sake of simplicity.

I hope that might persuade you to change your mind and contribute to this thread BH_Magic!

As a psychology graduate and member of the British Psychological Society I am bound by their code of ethics and conduct to behave myself in all aspects of life.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Mentalisten
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Do have/perform any effects which use ideas from the Object Relations theory? Am interested to hear an outline if you are willing to share.

Ross
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
Energizer
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Yeah - I've come up with one presentation which I'm really, extremely proud of.

Never actually used it though!

I'll PM it to you, as I've posted it on another forum and I think that makes it their copyright.

Sorry to exclude other people, but I don't have many ideas of my own in mentalism, and I don't want to broadcast one of the ideas I have had any more than I have broadcasted it already.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
BH_Magic
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That's very fair Olly - apologies if I came across as a bit of a grump! I'm sure you understand how it is though Smile

One or two I can't share for certain reasons, but I know I've come across a few in my readings... I will try and dig them out later!
Energizer
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Great. Thanks BH.

So many mentalist presentations are to do with unconscious subliminal influences, or hypnotism or doing things without knowing why we did it or whatever ... I want to find something new, and something that interests me even more than the more standard stuff.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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In SYZYGY there is a Freudian reading that is EXCELLENT for 1 on 1 performance
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
Energizer
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Sweet. Thanks Loochy-baby.


I just looked at Roth's Reflections as advertised at the Outlaw web site.

But it wasn't obvious to me how this effect would incorporate psychodynamic theory into the presentation.

Could Mr Hastings (or anybody else for that matter) please explain to Olly Crofton how it weaves psychodynamics into it's tangled web - whilst obviously not having to give the game away.

Just a couple of lines from the presentation, for example ...

Thanks
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
coupcoupdaddy
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My presentation (as well my background) is post-Jungian, Ollie. I assume your background will enable you to script and cast best the divination of common dreams Reflections offers.
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tnscot
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Sometimes a clipboard is just a clipboard.
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Energizer
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Post-Jungian? Wow! I've never even imagined combining the prefix 'post' with Jungian ... !

So are you saying that Reflections is partly about divining a common dream? It doesn't explicitly say so in the ad ... but it does say that you can divine a memory.

Divining a dream would be cool and the gang!

You reminded me of the 'Subtle Dreams' section in Banachek's PS1. And his Freudian Slip effect, also in PS1. The former is one of the most fascinating things in psychology I've read. Too bad it came from a magic book and hence seems a tad untrustworthy compared to info offered by a text book (although I'm not saying Banachek isn't to be trusted, before I get cyber-mobbed by Café members).

And perhaps you could also please provide a few lines or a paragraph that says a bit more about post-Jungian psychoanalysis ... or rather post-Jungian analytical psychology, right?
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
coupcoupdaddy
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That's correct. I pm'd you, Ollie, and am glad to talk more with you privately.

Tom
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Energizer
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Sorry - just to clarify - am I correct about the effect, or just with my technical terminology? Ha ha.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
coupcoupdaddy
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Is so? We seem to be one beat off in corresponding and posting. You can divine Memories, Dreams and Reflections from Outlaw's dandy little book of ESP research. I don't mean to be oblique. You can find my post-Jungian work in the Once Upon a Time forum of which this is a continuum.
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Energizer
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I had another vague and a frankly unimpressive idea to 'go Freudian'.

Again inspired by PS1.

There's a psychological force about dogs not getting a particular illness. It also appears in PS2.

What if we preceeded that with something like: - the building blocks of our psyches and some of our most emotionally charged memories form when we are very young. Powerful physical experiences during childhood, such as being unwell, having sore skin, the pain of being hungry, or frightened, or hot, cold, alone and not held - these experiences and the confusion they cause may fade away from our immediate memories into our unconscious mind, but still remain meaningful and motivating. It's the therapist's job to pick up on such aspects of our minds. But, if you are happy with this, I'm going to have a go as a thought-reader.

Do the force.

Question is ... any ideas on how to follow it?

Maybe the lines would be better coming AFTER the force ...

If this presentation is potentially unethical or harmful, I'd love to be steered in the right direction.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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