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Energizer
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Thanks Hoff-man. No apologies necessary.

Yes, I will try keep my presentations light. Hopefully I won't end up lecturing to my participants, or ranting on in a one-sided way. But for now, let's allow this discussion to get heavier and heavier, and go deeper and deeper!

Yes, I hope to keep learning from Dr Spektor. I just hope he will continue to contribute to the thread, and does not bow out, like he said he might earlier.

Thanks also Mentalisten for the reference. Most kind.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Dr Spektor
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Thanks Hoff-man!

I try Smile
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Dr. Spek and Hoff-man provide excellent reflections for you. I am impressed by your curiosity and passion for wanting to synthesize two fields into one.

Heavier and deeper. All right. Explore the work of Enrique Enriquez, Ollie. Although certainly not for beginners, "Invisible Readings" will perhaps send you into further knowledge and applications of Dr. Arnie Mindel's Process Therapy. Arnie was my analyst's analyst and I also was fortunate to have private and group sessions with him. His analyst was Marie Louise Von Franz whose work was core to Isso and Ellen's fairy tale research last year. Lucia Von Franz is the imaginary half-sister of Lucia Joyce.

Hope this helps at least a little wierdly so.

"thomas hastings" and the inner beings.
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Energizer
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Wonderful! Thanks so much. I wish I had more time for this kind of thing instead of ... statistics ...

Any more suggestions welcome.

Freud gags particularly welcome ...
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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Olly, I'd recommend reading the work of Bruno Bettelheim, particularly 'Uses of Enchantment'... it will give you plenty of food for thought, particularly in regard to childhood fantasies, fairy tales etc...

V
Smile When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...Smile
Energizer
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Thanks Virungan. It seems you have a good knowledge of this kind of thing ... Are you some kind of therapist?


If anyone's interested, I've had a couple more ideas for possible presentations along psychodynamic lines in the past couple of days.

Disassociated states - splitting of consciousness - for example for a false memory or forced amnesia effect. Perhaps splitting of the ego to avoid feeling stupid ... although obviously, this would have to be handled with sensitivy, consideration and respect, so as not to be unpleasant for the spec.


Also, the nature of truth and reality. Possible presentation.

Something along the lines of ... 'Magic and science teach us to look beyond the obvious. But nothing does this more so than psychodynamic theory and psychonamic therapy ... Psychodynamics helps us understand the babbling of particular psychiatric patients when previously it would be dismissed as meaningless ... It opens up new perspectives on literary and theatrical works and helps us see them in a whole new way ... It sheds light on relationship dynamics and group dynamics - mob mentalities - the so-called 'energies' (and I use that term in a non-mystical sense) that emerge when unstructured groups form ... And we can even, with the help of a therapist, get to grips with the logic behind our own irrationalities and begin to see why we may behave, from time to time, in bizarre ways.



Having said that ... we should not accept uncritically or unquestioningly what scientists, magicians or psychoanalysts tell us. We should maintain a healthy scepticism, perhaps. (Dunno if I'll include that last bit in the presentation)

This second presentation would go well with some kind of lie-detection routine ... a variant of living or dead ... perhaps .... Or some kind of optical illusion. It might go well with Chuck Smith's Imagination, if anyone knows that routine.

But yes, also with a view to keeping thing light and entertaining.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Mentalisten
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If you're thinking on the lines of lie detection then a good idea is to maybe consider a routine based on the premise of the 'superego'. For example:

'Who here finds themselves always getting into destructive relationships? If you do then this could indicate unconscious guilt or 'silent guilt', repressed out of conscious awarness but still influencing your life. You see, there is a part of the psyche called the 'superego' that is partly conscious but predominantly unconscious. It is formed at around 4/5 yrs old through the internalisation of your parents ideals and is the part of the mind which makes us feel guilt or pride ie. the conscience. When we give into aggressive impulses we self-inflict oursevles with guilt as a punishment and, if we are consciously aware of it (often termed 'noisy guilt'), we tend to emotionally signal it via remorse. The reference I gave to destructive relationships is the more extreme, somewhat neurotic, case, so I will keep this demonstration far more light and engaging by...' and the you explain the instructions, for example '... by inducing a state of temporary guilt by having you lie to me and then I will hopefully be able to pick up on your subtle, or indeed explicit, signals of remorse'.

I've tried and tested the routine many times and it works great. Obviously its just an idea... you can adapt it anyway that suits you etc. Just thought I'd share.

Ross
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Energizer
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Thanks Mentalisten. A welcome contribution ...

You've just given me another idea ...
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
coupcoupdaddy
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Jung galvanized word association response and voilia lie detector as de-vice!

True or False? : Imagination > Affect + Behaviour + Cognition

Charmed, I'm sure,

Professor Lucia Von Franz
Z&LT Dream Clinician for Performance Artists
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Tony Iacoviello
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Violin lie detectors?

I guess that would work, my cat used to cry while I played. I guess it could force the truth from people.
coupcoupdaddy
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Ah, my friend, do you know the shortest word in English that uses abcdef?
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Energizer
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Well ...

I've looked through this thread and it seems that the recommended psychoanalytic effects are:

Chandu's Psychoanalysis
Roth's Reflections
The reading in Syzygy
In Your Hands - by Sean Waters
Invisible Readings - Enrique Enriquez
Mentalisten's Psychoanalytic Uncovering of The Truth - described above

Thomas - you recommended Isso Liwok's Father of All Book Tests (with Joyce's Finnegans Wake) or Isnot Liwok's Divine Child of All Book Tests (with Robert Graves' White Goddess) - but I'm not sure if these are real effects, or you being cryptic!

Apologies if I've overlooked any.

It's still not very many is it? (although I'm grateful for all contributions so far)

Surely there must be something in the Jinx? Anyone?.

Or what about Terry Nosek's book? Or is the title for that one misleading and ... Fraudian?

I can't believe more mentalist's haven't turned to Freud to provide a false solution for their shenanigans.

Anymore contributions welcome. Freud gags particularly welcome.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Mentalisten
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'So Old Freud Told It'

A guy goes to see a psychiatrist. "Doc, I keep having these alternating recurring dreams. First I'm a teepee; then I'm a wigwam; then I'm a teepee; then I'm a wigwam. It's driving me crazy. What's wrong with me?"

The doctor replies: "It's very simple. You're two tents."

Ross
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Mentalisten
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Two guys are sitting at a bar talking and one guy asks the other guy, "Man, have you ever heard of a Freudian slip?"

"What are you talking about?" says the other guy.

"Well I was at the airport the other day and one of the clerks had a really big chest, and I meant to say, 'Could I have two tickets to Pittsburgh,' but I accidentally said, 'Could I have have two tickets to Titsburgh."

The other guy says, "Oh yeah! I know what you're talking about! I was sitting at the dinner table with my wife the other day and I meant to say, 'Could you pass the salt please,' but instead I said, 'B**ch, you ruined my life!"

Ross
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coupcoupdaddy
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What is observable is in what light the feminine is portrayed.
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Mentalisten
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I know... Oedipal issues I think.

Good boy Freud for realising this in his book - 'Jokes and Their Relation to the Unconscious'. Bad boy for not realsing it in yourself.
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
coupcoupdaddy
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Bad boy
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Corona Smith
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Out of the griddle and into the...
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Gag order?
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Corona Smith
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Nope, mirrors are allowed.
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