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Anabelle Special user 951 Posts |
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On 2007-07-19 20:22, Carlos the Great wrote: Since you asked nicely. My original question is for those who scream and shout about disclaimers and fraud and lawsuits and misleading and lying, etc, who feel very strong about this issue, yet give themselves a title that is perceived to be the very thing they DON'T want people to believe they are. Calling yourself BLARCHART means nothing to an audience, so you can either do your show and let people believe what they will or you can have a lawyer come out onstage to present an official disclaimer that what you're about to see is fake. People leaving that performance will associate a BLARCHART to a person that fakes psychic phenomena. Fine. But calling yourself a MENTALIST, MINDREADER, etc, then telling your audience that even though you call yourself that, you are in fact faking it all, is confusing. I just wanted to hear from those who have very strong opinion about disclaimers yet give themselves titles that are perceived by the general public to be what they don't want you to think they are. Quote:
On 2007-07-19 20:29, Stephen Long wrote: This is the reason I posted my question. If calling yourself a MENTALIST could be (and often is) perceived as something real, and calling yourself an entertainer is not disclamatory enough then why confuse your audience by calling yourself a mentalist, then turning around and saying "I know what you think a Mentalist is, but in fact I'm a magician doing mind tricks." This is exactly my point, for those who are this concerned about it, calling yourself a MINDREADER or MENTALIST is doublespeak (because of the perceived definition). Just to make it clear, I personally only address this issue when it's brought to my attention. If I perform something as entertainment (which in my opinion is very clear), and someone comes up afterwards and asks me if I can put a curse on someone, or if I'm psychic, or if I can talk to the dead, I clearly say no. I do call myself a mentalist, but I'm not at the same time criticizing people like Jim and others on here for being frauds, or claiming they are misleading the public with their disrespectful and liable performances. So going back to my initial point, if you feel strongly about not misleading the public, should you be giving yourself a title that the general public perceives as being what you DON'T want them to think you are? That's all I'm really curious about, because like I said before, it just seems to be a bit hypocritical. Anabelle |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
When I perform, I call myself a Psychological Illusionist. It's a term I've been using since first hearing about Chan Canasta and his term for what he did: "Psycho-Magic", a combination between psychology and Magic. When I'm talking to other performers or to booking agents, I call myself a Mentalist because they understand what I mean and it's a shorthand that saves time. I also make a point of telling bookers, interviewers, etc., that I don't pretend to be psychic.
- entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
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Interesting! (Especially the last one.) |
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Rocketeer Special user Westchester, NY 965 Posts |
Who was it who said, "Nobody wants to see a phony mindreader" or something like it?
Magicians do tricks whose outcome is considered certain (outside of the odd tiger attack or dead dove). If a magician fails it's usually embarrassing. Mentalists do "experiments," whose outcome is considered uncertain. If a mentalist fails it usually doesn't matter much. Why is this? I believe it's because everyone knows that what magicians appear to do is plainly impossible and is therefore a trick. A significant portion of a mentalist's audience isn't absolutely sure that what they're seeing is a mere trick. That fragile illusion (or delusion) is part of the charm of mentalism for me.
I'm selling my hardcover autographed limited edition copy of Jerome Finley's "Thought Veil"
PM me for info. |
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chris_johnson_au Regular user Queensland, Australia 113 Posts |
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On 2007-07-19 19:25, Anabelle wrote: I know what you mean. It's as silly as an actor breaking character during a play or a movie. Mind you, I also think it's just as silly as a magician who says he/she is only doing tricks instead of performing magical wonders. ESPecially best wishes... |
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Energizer Special user A well known funeral palour 582 Posts |
This one came to me as I drifted between sleep and wakefulness.
How's about 'I'm not a mind reader. I'm more of a mind twister. I twist minds, not in a sinister way, but to create new yet illusory realities. So none of this is real, but it may seem that way'.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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Stephen Long Inner circle 1481 Posts |
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On 2007-07-19 21:57, gabelson wrote: To the cognoscenti, maybe. But to an audience there's not a huge difference if you're pretending to be psychic. It's not unlikely for someone to think, "I used to think this was all bull, but now I've seen it live I think there's actually something in it. Maybe I will go and see that psychic for a reading after all..." Real question: Are you happy potentially converting people to believe in and spend their money on frauds? Quote:
On 2007-07-19 23:56, Anabelle wrote: You're misinterpreting what I said. I said mentalism could be (and often is) perceived as something real. I was talking about the act of performing it, and that has nothing to do with what you call yourself. I think you're too hung up on this whole "label" issue. I'll say it again: what you call yourself has very little (if any) bearing on what the audience actually believes.
Hello.
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salsa_dancer Inner circle 1935 Posts |
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On 2007-07-20 06:03, Stephen Long wrote: What if you were to perform your show, complete with disclaimers, and a person still believed that what you did was real, as they are prone to do from time to time. Are you happy that they will go out and spend money on frauds? Does your burden of responsibility stop at the intelligent person that understands the disclaimer? If it is being suggested that we should be protecting people from all the frauds, then we should only perform exposure shows. |
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jlevey Inner circle Montreal, Quebec, Canada 2076 Posts |
In reality we are all entertainers... but calling ourselves entertainers (for some) "may" not be entertaining to the paying public.
How about (for "some" of us), calling ourselves simply by our real name or by a "fun" and/or theatrical neame and telling people what we "do" , ie. a demonstration of the "power of the Mind",a la Chuck Hickock (and, I believe several others) might suffice. Perhaps both points above have already been mentioned here on this post. If so, I apologize. Unfortunately, I'm rushing out the door, but still thought I might share my 3 cents. With best regards. Jonathan Jonathan
Jonathan
Max & Maxine Entertainment Magicians with a touch of comedy! ___________________________________ www.maxmagician.com www.mindreadershow.com www.monsieurmagic.com |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Count Bloodcount: I am a vampire.
Bugs Bunny: Oh, yeah? Well, Abracadabra, I'm an umpire. [suddenly is wearing umpire clothes] Count Bloodcount: Hocus Pocus, I'm a bat. [turns into a bat] Bugs Bunny: I can be a bat, too. Hocus Pocus. [turns into a baseball bat] Count Bloodcount: [putting on glasses] You wouldn't hurt a bat with glasses, would you? [Bat hits vampire] A rose by any other name.... Hey, let us call upon the wisdom of Umberto Eco
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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jasons_mind Loyal user 258 Posts |
Jerome,
Just wanted to say, what an excellent opener and way to start things off on the "right" foot. Excellent thinking. Jason. |
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
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Stephen Long wrote: It's naive to think what you label yourself is meaningless. Try labeling yourself a clown next time. Lots of confusion after someone comes to your show to watch a clown perform and end up with a mentalist who says he's not really a mentalist. I predict you'll have to give out some refunds too. What if a young man saw your ad and read you were a mentalist so he decided to go online to find out exactly what the heck a mentalist was then showed up to your show only to hear you say before you started performing that you call yourself a mentalist but not really according to the definition the young man found online. A little confusing and the young man might leave that performance still thinking you had powers because even though you said you don't have any, the definitions of your "label" are all there. Labels are important unfortunately. As an example, my girlfriend told her mother on the phone I was a mentalist and she believed until she met me and I had a chat with her that I was a sort of psychic. Now if my girlfriend said I was a magician or clown her mother would've never thought that about me. I'm also the kind of performer who does not like disclaimers before a performance. I want people to have a unique experience during my performances. If asked I say I am not a psychic and then follow with something along the Derren Brown/Banachek explanations, it varies, but I will never do that before I begin my performance. No way. I think what you call yourself does have a bearing on what the audience might believe. If you call yourself a mind reading clown, I believe it'll be less likely that people will believe you have powers.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Stephen Long Inner circle 1481 Posts |
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On 2007-07-20 06:18, salsa_dancer wrote: Yes. Perfectly. I've said my bit and my responsibility ends there. It's not about exposing or being on a mission or anything like that. It's about acknowledging that you, the performer, are a potential catalyst for a whole new belief system. It's about how content you are to be that.
Hello.
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DT3 Inner circle Hill Valley 1920 Posts |
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On 2007-07-20 08:36, jasons_mind wrote: Trudat. The ghost of Dunninger walks among us! Quote:
On 2007-07-19 21:49, Dr Spektor wrote: Spot on, Bruce! FWIW, I like Mystic. I once did a bachelor party and one of the chaps there who was told there was going to be a mentalist just could not remember that word. He kept referring to me as the "mesmerist"...not bad really. DT3 |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Even we can't agree on what a Mentalist is. How can we expect the public to know?
- entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Stephen Long Inner circle 1481 Posts |
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On 2007-07-20 09:09, ALEXANDRE wrote: Yes, of course. But you're taking the argument to its ridiculous extremes where it makes no sense. My point was made in context of the types of things we tend to call ourselves. Mentalist. Mind Magician. Psychic Entertainer. Psychological Illusionist. I don't think audiences can distinguish between them. Not really. Who's heard of a mentalist anyway? We define what our labels mean when we perform. I don't care whether or not I adhere to a dictionary definition of what it means to be a mentalist. Why should I? (Is that word even in the dictionary? I sincerely hope not.) I acknowledge that labels are important - but not the ones we give ourselves. It's only the label the audience gives us in their heads that has any real significance. It's not what you say you are, it's your performance, it's what you do that defines you as an entertainer. I could say I am a Christian, and indeed I might even be one, but if I kill a man in cold blood, everyone will think of me as a murderer.
Hello.
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
Fair enough.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Stephen,
I do just as you say in my opening remarks by defining what I am and do. However people have formed an opinion of me by my title, posters, website, etc. Before the event starts. It is in my opion important to controll how people think of you. (At least it is in what I present.) Type Paranormalist into Google and my site is first. Kind of like being the example of mentalist in the dictionary. As you say we define our labels with our performance and if we are lucky we become the definition of the label. -Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Stephen always makes good sense.
- entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
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On 2007-07-20 09:57, Jim-Callahan wrote: I chuckled to see that you invoke Randi's name in the first line of the link description, too. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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