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Rory Raven
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At least Dr. Todd can spell ... even the hard words like "they", "incorrect", and "ridiculous."

R
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
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DrTodd
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Quote:
On 2007-07-22 07:02, bubbleburst2004 wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-07-22 03:20, DrTodd wrote:
Because they all wrote to me and I can see it in the results.


Hahahahahaha

So,
there are people who had no idea thay did it around the wrong way
and you accept their results because they didn't point it out to you

and then there are those who had no idea
but your PRE ASSUMPTIONS about how they SHOULD respond
bias you to judge that they were correct. Or was that incorect.

Ahh , how did you get your Phd ???


suggest you start again

I am interested , but really, this is rediculous....





There is no need for personal attacks on my background when you hide behind a username. I happened to have published 6 books in political science, numerous articles and I have analysed all sorts of data from individual level data to pooled cross-section time-series data on countries over time.

The data are not random, I know that. They will give a good sense of people's responses to the questions. The number of resondents is low enough to look for real anomalies, which is what most sensible data analysts do. Thus far, I have had consistent and genuine responses. It does not aim to be 'scientific' in that sense and was based on (perhaps now foolish) sense of trust in the magic and mentalism community.

Shame this is the only forum generating such negativity. The others are keen. I now see why this place gets criticised. Next time I won't bother advertising here.
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2007-07-22 13:33, DrTodd wrote:

There is no need for personal attacks on my background when you hide behind a username. I happened to have published 6 books in political science, numerous articles and I have analysed all sorts of data from individual level data to pooled cross-section time-series data on countries over time.

The data are not random, I know that. They will give a good sense of people's responses to the questions. The number of resondents is low enough to look for real anomalies, which is what most sensible data analysts do. Shame this is the only forum generating such negativity. The others are keen. I now see why this place gets criticised. Next time I won't bother advertising here.


As you Brits are fond of saying; there's no need to spit your dummy out of the pram.

If you are going to involve yourself in research, and are expecting an accurate feedback of a selective servey, then your controls in running such a survey need to be far more tighter than it is now.

What negitivity are you suggesting?

As a published writer, and one who is familar with the standards of research, surely you cannot take offence if I or anyone points out what should be a glaringly obvious problem with your methodolgy.
Quote:
Thus far, I have had consistent and genuine responses. It does not aim to be 'scientific' in that sense and was based on (perhaps now foolish) sense of trust in the magic and mentalism community.


Given the open door policy on this survey you don't have any way of proving this statement; that it is comprised of genuine responses.

If I touched a sore spot with you with my comments, then I apologise; however if you are presenting a survey as being an accurate one, then is it really unreasonable for me to perhaps expect that the controls on such a survey would lend credence the thesis that any response would be accurate?

Just a few thoughts...
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


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Bananafish
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Quote:
On 2007-07-22 16:03, mindguy wrote:
If you are going to involve yourself in research, and are expecting an accurate feedback of a selective servey, then your controls in running such a survey need to be far more tighter than it is now.

What negitivity are you suggesting?

As a published writer, and one who is familar with the standards of research, surely you cannot take offence if I or anyone points out what should be a glaringly obvious problem with your methodolgy.

Well if it was my survey. I would take offence.

For starters you have dismissed his methodolgy before you have even seen what he will deduce from the replies. Maybe he will take into account the points you have made? I feel it very presumptious of you not to wait for the results before being so critical.

Whatever you say. This survey will show something. It may not be exactly what YOU would want out of a survey of this nature but it will nevertheless be very interesting (in my must humblest of opinions - obviously) to see how mentalists, both professional and amateur, answer the questions.

To say it is of no use at all, IS insulting.

I just hope you haven't put off anyone wanting to fill it out.

Quote:
On 2007-07-22 16:03, mindguy wrote:
As you Brits are fond of saying; there's no need to spit your dummy out of the pram.
And there is another presumptious statement that is wrong (and pehaps a little aggresive?)
Rory Raven
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> As you Brits are fond of saying; there's no need to spit your dummy out of the pram.

I bet no one has said this in 50+ years.

Rory
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
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Al Straker
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Dr Todd,

Please proceed with YOUR survey however you see fit.

I recently posted asking if anyone applies metaphysical ideas to their mentalism performances (I gave the example of Tao Te Ching which I use in a mentalism context) and your name came up as someone who bases a lot of their material on these kind of ideas. I would like to discuss this further with you in private at some point.

Cheers,
Al Straker
Al Straker
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(Old clip, show has changed quite a bit since then!)

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ALEXANDRE
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Next time, I wouldn't bother, DrTodd. In fact I wouldn't even publish the results in this forum or make any more comments regarding it, let those who might be interested look for it elsewhere.

Or you could just expect that some here in the Café will gladly and happily tear your results apart and in the process point out how unimaginative and inaccurate you have been.

Naturally, it's your call.
Bertrand Thornley
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Geesh, what is with some people on here. Dr Todd is conducting an interesting and I would also say fun survey. It will be fun and interesting to see what patterns are revealed, and I'm certain the insights; both practical and sociological will outweigh any flaws. I see someone is still recovering from the emotional trauma having their bubble burst! Don't take it out on others. Look in the mirror and give yourself a big hug Smile
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Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2007-07-22 19:17, Rory Raven wrote:

> As you Brits are fond of saying; there's no need to spit your dummy out of the pram.

I bet no one has said this in 50+ years.

Rory


Perhaps in Rhode Island Rory, but here in Coventry where I live....how about last week at work?
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
DrTodd
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Quote:
On 2007-07-22 16:03, mindguy wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-07-22 13:33, DrTodd wrote:

There is no need for personal attacks on my background when you hide behind a username. I happened to have published 6 books in political science, numerous articles and I have analysed all sorts of data from individual level data to pooled cross-section time-series data on countries over time.

The data are not random, I know that. They will give a good sense of people's responses to the questions. The number of resondents is low enough to look for real anomalies, which is what most sensible data analysts do. Shame this is the only forum generating such negativity. The others are keen. I now see why this place gets criticised. Next time I won't bother advertising here.


As you Brits are fond of saying; there's no need to spit your dummy out of the pram.

If you are going to involve yourself in research, and are expecting an accurate feedback of a selective servey, then your controls in running such a survey need to be far more tighter than it is now.

What negitivity are you suggesting?

As a published writer, and one who is familar with the standards of research, surely you cannot take offence if I or anyone points out what should be a glaringly obvious problem with your methodolgy.
Quote:
Thus far, I have had consistent and genuine responses. It does not aim to be 'scientific' in that sense and was based on (perhaps now foolish) sense of trust in the magic and mentalism community.


Given the open door policy on this survey you don't have any way of proving this statement; that it is comprised of genuine responses.

If I touched a sore spot with you with my comments, then I apologise; however if you are presenting a survey as being an accurate one, then is it really unreasonable for me to perhaps expect that the controls on such a survey would lend credence the thesis that any response would be accurate?

Just a few thoughts...





I understand your concerns about the sampling strategy. It will never be random, and I had two choices: (1) send it to an elite group of mentalists (I have a nice email list of the top mentalists in the world) or (2) post it on various forums. I opted for the latter as sending it to the hermetically sealed (pun intended) elite group would have produced a different kind of bias.

Overall, as I am at pains to say here, I am not getting random responses, but consistent ones, and the free text entries allow for additional insight into influences, paths to mentalism, and belief systems. In many ways, the qualitative aspects of the survey are proving more fascinating.

As a point of interest, I am good old yank from Harrisburg PA, I have been out of a pram for some time now, and there was actually no need for Mr bubble no name to query the vaidity of my PhD.

The survey will run, I will write up the results and share them with the next London Mentalism Meeting and get valuable feedback from my peers. If they reject my findings, then I will move on.
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2007-07-22 18:26, Bananafish wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-07-22 16:03, mindguy wrote:
If you are going to involve yourself in research, and are expecting an accurate feedback of a selective servey, then your controls in running such a survey need to be far more tighter than it is now.

What negitivity are you suggesting?

As a published writer, and one who is familar with the standards of research, surely you cannot take offence if I or anyone points out what should be a glaringly obvious problem with your methodolgy.

Well if it was my survey. I would take offence.

For starters you have dismissed his methodolgy before you have even seen what he will deduce from the replies. Maybe he will take into account the points you have made? I feel it very presumptious of you not to wait for the results before being so critical.


Presumptious?

Nope. Not at all.

I've not dismissed his methodology here; I've only suggested that the results would be a tad more accurate had there been some better controls placed on it. If one is doing sociological research, then surely it's not out of place to suggest that the results will be far more accurate if the controls used to conduct such a survey are more tighter, and, yes, restrictive, than they are at the moment.

As far as for waiting for the results are concerned, I would suspect that had I actually waited for those results, and then expressed my concerns, the reaction from you might be the same.

Quote:
Whatever you say. This survey will show something. It may not be exactly what YOU would want out of a survey of this nature but it will nevertheless be very interesting (in my must humblest of opinions - obviously) to see how mentalists, both professional and amateur, answer the questions.


And you've made my point for me.

Given the lack of controls there's no way that YOU or I can tell of those who are responding to this survey actually ARE mentalist/mystery entertainers.

Quote:
To say it is of no use at all, IS insulting.


In terms of accuracy, it isn't of much use. Sorry if you disagree, but anyone who conducts surveys for a living, socological or otherwise will say the same thing, the results of such an open door exervise will not be accurate as there is no restriction on the respondants.

Quote:
I just hope you haven't put off anyone wanting to fill it out.


I doubt seriously that I have that much influence for this.

Quote:
On 2007-07-22 16:03, mindguy wrote:
As you Brits are fond of saying; there's no need to spit your dummy out of the pram.
Quote:
And there is another presumptious statement that is wrong (and pehaps a little aggresive?)


Nope mearly an observation.

The questions I've raised were done respectfully, without personal attack and insult. The concerns expressed were not answered, either publically or via PM.

Someone questions the methodology here, and the response is that he won't be posting here anymore in reply to the very thread he started.

Hardly conducive to open discussion on a thread that invites discussion is it?

Or have we gone so far to the right that we no longer invite polite debate and differences of opnion here?
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
Piers
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Anyway ...

I've participated, ( and will take a sensibly pragmatic view on the results ).

Should be interesting.

Piers. Smile
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Anabelle
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I don't think it's about NOT discussing things and just having an opposing view, it's about HOW it's done (like attacking someone's background, etc). I've noticed the minute anything is posted on the Café, specially here in the mentalism section, it gets attacked, and I've also noticed it's mostly NOT constructive but destructive, NOT helpful, but usually hurtful. It's unfortunate, but most opposing responses to anything here in the Café have a nasty edge to them, and that should be a warning up on top.

Anabelle
DrTodd
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Quote:
The questions I've raised were done respectfully, without personal attack and insult. The concerns expressed were not answered, either publically or via PM.


But my last post did answer your queries...I laid out the sampling options I had and discussed my reasioning in my choices. I opted for a less biased sample with a bit more noise than a more biased sample with less noise, a classic trade-off in the survey business. I also have repeatedly made the point that the results are looking very consistent and well informed...if there truly were non-mentalists filling it out or hijacking it then such results would not be turning up. Since no one can see the results while filling in the survey, it would be impossible for them to skew them a priori, unless of course they really are psychic!

I respect your queries and answered them accordingly. My gripe was with bubble man who shifted the debate away from methodology to a personal attack, which was unwarranted.

I would be interested to learn of your sampling strategy and why it would it would be superior to mine?

Thanks,

Todd
entity
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Todd:

My early post wasn't meant as an attack, and I hope that you didn't take it that way. I just thought that your survey was unclear at one point, and I thought that it might affect your results.

I thought I should point out where some people might be confused.

- entity
DrTodd
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Quote:
On 2007-07-23 12:13, entity wrote:
Todd:

My early post wasn't meant as an attack, and I hope that you didn't take it that way. I just thought that your survey was unclear at one point, and I thought that it might affect your results.

I thought I should point out where some people might be confused.

- entity


Thanks Entity...again my gripe has only been with the bubble....and I had addressed the other concerns. It is however too late to change the sampling strategy.

I do await MindGuy's response and recommend he check his profile as his website link is missing www Smile

Cheers

Todd
Anabelle
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He calls himself, "bubbleburst2004", that should say something.

Anabelle
DrTodd
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Quote:
On 2007-07-23 12:54, Anabelle wrote:
He calls himself, "bubbleburst2004", that should say something.

Anabelle


Now that's funny!
Rory Raven
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>Perhaps in Rhode Island Rory, but here in Coventry where I live....how about last week at work?

Here in RI it's 2007.

And if I had co-workers like that, I'd look for a new job!

Rory
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." -- Groucho Marx
visit www.roryraven.com today!
bubbleburst2004
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Anabelle, the name bubbleburst was choosen for a particular purpose, yes. And when your bubble needs to be burst I will do so too.

Let me just run this past again. I'm invited to take part in a survey. I do so. I'm interested in the results (still am.) One of the questions does not have a scale, so is open to misunderstanding. I point this out, as do several other people. I thought it was a pity the survey was spoiled by this mistake. The person running the survey says it doesn't matter as he can tell which way everyone intended to vote. I don't believe this is possible. Do you?
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