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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Well then, go for it - just that the OP asked our opinions of how a non-gross show would go over with kids.
I never wentr for gross, but I always tried for "edgy." But it was tough to tell when that edginess (in my view entirely benign and mild) would draw horrified objections from the "little duckies and bears in sailor suits" parents. Only haened a few times, but those times were ... uh ... let's just say "memorable." I think there's still a birthday kid somewhere (he'd be out of college by now) asking "why did you throw the magician out, mom? He was awesome!" Then, to paraphrase comedian Patton Oswalt, "I ran into a couple of complete raisin-cakes who woke me up and made me realize I'm nowhere NEAR the edge!" |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Potty,
I thought I misunderstood you. The suggestions you had were dead-on (the ones I recognized anyway!)for an non-gross show, and it can be highly successful. The chicken sword and Lemon Game seem to work well, and most routines I would do for adults - ESPECIALLY close-up like fork bending, flashy coin & cash routines. Another one that works especially well is the invisible ball w/paper bag. Ross, I want to hear the story of when you were tossed out of a BD party! *L* I assume it has been long enough ago that you can talk about it? *G* Ross, I am glad not everyone does gross magic, and it does not fit everyone's character. (I think there is a complement in there somewhere!) |
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MikeRaffone Special user 623 Posts |
The people hiring me are usually "proper" and I wouldn't want to offend the ones who pay my bills. I'll stick with regular funny for now.
Have to admit the episode of Mr. Bean where he blows snot all over himself in church was pretty funny. I almost died laughing. Can't understand how anyone could not like him - my girl refuses to watch him and won't even listen to me talk about him. Mike
Mike Perrello
DC Area's Leading Family Entertainment Expert |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I think it's a guy thing. 11 year old girls don't want snot ... they want "girly girl" stuff; they want to be teenagers! 11 year old boys, on the other hand, want gross. Boys Mike Raffone's age want ... gross, too! We all laugh when Flounder has to do pushups in the horse apples. Wives and girlfriends, on the other hand, wonder why we even bother to watch.
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Daveandrews Special user London, UK 723 Posts |
I wouldn't do 'gross' if they paid me a fortune.
The world is full of 'gross'in too many ways. 'Gross' is unecessary and counter productive to a 'decent' society. 'Gross' has almost become the norm (not necessarily in children's entertainment). Once you step over the mark, and someone does it better than you, you have to be even more 'gross' - that is the way of the world and I refuse to join it. I entertain in a clean and wholesome manner and will never change my approach - my delivery, yes, to accommodate what/who I have in front of me. Then again, I am an old fogey - maybe YOU can convince me otherwise, but I doubt it. I'm with Kimmo all the way. Say what you will ) Dave
http://[URL]www.partymagic.org.uk" target="_blank">www.partymagic.org.uk" target="_blank">http://[URL]www.partymagic.org.uk
Winner of KIDabra International's 'People's Choice Award' Winner IBM British Ring Dittia Shield for manipulation x 2 |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Dave,
Why change what works? Your presentation works well for you, I don't think anyone is trying to "convert" anyone to doing "gross" shows or routines. In magic gross is the exception, not the rule. I don't know anyone who just does gross shows either. I really don't think "gross" is the way of the world - if it was, then it would not be that big a deal. Quote:
'Gross' is unnecessary and counter productive to a 'decent' society. Sure, it is unnecessary, but then magic is unnecessary too. Life would be dull if we only had what is necessary. Many people think all of magic is counter productive to a 'decent' society! Lot's of churches ban it. The only thing I question is, as you say, "clean and wholesome". Gross can be clean (i.e. not sexual or not unsanitary) and wholesome (conducive to moral or general well-being). It can be used for delivering a message (safety)and does not need to have anything immoral. ". . .clean and wholesome" has a strong ethical twist, and I don't think this has anything to do with ethics - just presentation. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Dave, your statement that "Once you step over the mark, and someone does it better than you, you have to be even more 'gross' - that is the way of the world and I refuse to join it" is rather inaccurate. We can all decide how much "gross" we want, and stick with that. I find gags about snot very innocent, snot is a perfectly natural product that for some irrational reason, we humans find "gross", similarly farting, etc.
It's the Victorian in us that finds these things offensive, and kids have always known that these things are funny, far from offensive. Once you start talking about Knife Thru Arm, Sawing in Half, blood and gore tricks, then you could say that's really gross. Strangely, most adults probably find blood less gross than snot, unlike kids. Even so, many tricks like this are very popular. But the whole point is, what about tricks for older kids that DON'T use gross? I suggest a knockout card trick, older kids love stuff like that too. |
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Daveandrews Special user London, UK 723 Posts |
I wont use 'snot' or 'fart' gags. Not that I am a prude, but the majority of parents wouldn't find it funny where their children are concerned, if they booked an 'entertainer'. Perhaps it is down to the performer's personality, but I couldn't get away with it and wouldn't even want to try.
Fun, laughter and entertainment does not have to resort to basic bodily functions to be funny - certainly not for children. In the same way that you do not have to resort to swearing to entertain adults - although I am sure that there are those that would want to convince me otherwise. There is a mentality in today's world that will validate anything and everything- good or bad, and consequently 'anything goes'. Call me a boring old fart, but I will continue to make the children (and adults) laugh and book me again and again. All in the old fashioned way, of course. Best, Dave
http://[URL]www.partymagic.org.uk" target="_blank">www.partymagic.org.uk" target="_blank">http://[URL]www.partymagic.org.uk
Winner of KIDabra International's 'People's Choice Award' Winner IBM British Ring Dittia Shield for manipulation x 2 |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Dave,
Your last two posts, in an old fashioned way, are dripping with an air of superiority that is much more offensive than any "gross" trick I have seen. As stated before, no one is trying top convert you, and certainly no one is saying "this is the only way". I have no problem with you not wanting to do "gross" magic, nor do I have a problem with you not liking it. I doubt anyone does. Quote:
"decent' society" (implying that performers who do so are not part of decent society), "I entertain in a clean and wholesome manner . . ." (implying that is your fellow performer IS NOT clean or wholesome), "There is a mentality in today's world that will validate anything and everything- good or bad, and consequently 'anything goes'."(implying that is your fellow performer would validate anything) For all of recorded history, each generation is critical of the next, and thinks they have better morals, when in fact, things change. All I ask is that you, in an old fashioned way, be respectful of the other posters whom you may not agree with wholeheartedly. BTW "basic bodily functions" entertainment is far more "old fashioned" than anything that any of us do. Quote: - no, they would find it hilarious - IF done right. I see them laugh all the time, and NEVER have had a complaint. This is from trailer parks to multimillion dollar homes, in most conceivable walks of life. I am sure lots of other entertainers have simular experiences. Presentation is key.
but the majority of parents wouldn't find it funny where their children are concerned, Quote: That is correct! Just because YOU cannot get away with “gross magic†does not mean others can't (and do). There are styles of magic I cannot do, I just can't get away with it. I, personally, do not like "snot and fart" jokes in a show. I don't find them funny, but I know lots of people do think they are funny -especially children. "Mr. Bean", to me, held very little humor, but millions found him hilarious. That does not mean that the "millions" are from "Sodom & Gomorrah" or are in some way less “decentâ€, it just means we all have different tastes. I am glad we are not all clones!
Perhaps it is down to the performer's personality, but I couldn't get away with it . . . In an old fashioned way, Best, Kerry |
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
Captain, I think Mr Andrew's "air of superiority" is in your head as to me I read the opinion of working pro, humbly putting his own well-reasoned point of view across. So I don't think there was any need to get personal.
In my new show I combine pack small, play big with gross humour and pull a 1 hour show out my arse. George |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
I'd like to mention that, especially when I display my Jar of Snot, and tip the contents out to allow the audience to see the slimy green stuff inside (it really does look like some vile kinda snot), it's not just the kids whose eyes light up. I regularly see the adults looking at each other, sometimes slightly shaking their heads, but always with a big smile. They know that this is the bit the kids LOVE, and are just as delighted as the kids are.
OK, sometimes Mum will grimace and act disgusted, but she's only playing along with the gag. I've used snot gags in front of all kinds of folk, and not one has ever been offended. Though I don't want to get personal, I do think Dave's comments belie an air of superiority. Your comment that "'Gross' is unecessary and counter productive to a 'decent' society" is quite ludicrous. First, show me a "decent" society, with which we can test this hypothesis. Then I'd like to further understand how finding bodily functions amusing translates to indecency? There IS a slow sapping of ethics and morals from modern societies across the globe, but it's mainly to do with selfishness and greed, along with lack of communication and care; nothing to do with snot or farting. But old fashioned Victorian values, which seems to be what Dave is espousing, are the very qualities that have lead to certain "decent" members of society feeling superior, and believing that they are somehow better human beings than others. Of course, it's a load of baloney, I find such attitudes offensive and destructive; and I accuse the self-righteous of causing the slide in society's values, not those who laugh at snot jokes. Just my 2c, Doug :) |
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pogo New user 19 Posts |
But old fashioned Victorian values, which seems to be what Dave is espousing, are the very qualities that have lead to certain "decent" members of society feeling superior, and believing that they are somehow better human beings than others. Of course, it's a load of baloney, I find such attitudes offensive and destructive; and I accuse the self-righteous of causing the slide in society's values, not those who laugh at snot jokes.
Just my 2c, Doug Hi, Whilst I can see your point Doug, I do think it is a bit flawed, do you for example really believe that having good manners is a bad thing? I understand that having good manners and knowing how to behave in public may seem to make a person seem snooty or superior but I do not personally see it. it is very easy for a person who lacks these social skills to kick out at those who have and say that "they think they are better than everone else" After all it is easier to put others down rather than stand back and see the skills one lacks. I am a down to earth person I see nothing wrong with fart and snot gags but on the other foot I see nothing wrong, in fact I see good manners and social skills as an asset pogo |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Pogo
LMAO! HOW CAN A PERSON WITH "GOOD" MANNERS APPEAR SNOOTY OR SUPERIOR???????? I laughed real hard at that! Seems to me that a person with "good" manners would appear just the opposite. Still, I am not sure how you can possibly think Doug does not espouse manners. Just not phony ones. As for Doug, I have found his manners very good and he is always very helpful. Doug is one of us who REALLY knows his profession, so I suggest you listen to him. |
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pogo New user 19 Posts |
Captin wrote:
HOW CAN A PERSON WITH "GOOD" MANNERS APPEAR SNOOTY OR SUPERIOR?????? Hi, well its clearly how Doug judged Dave, because Dave considered Manners to be important, Dave is there fore promoting "qualities that have lead to certain "decent" members of society feeling superior, and believing that they are somehow better human beings than others. Of course, it's a load of baloney, I find such attitudes offensive and destructive; and I accuse the self-righteous of causing the slide in society's values, not those who laugh at snot jokes" As Not farting or picking ones nose in pulic are considered simply good manners, I cannot see promoting them by example as a bad thing. quote: Doug is one of us who REALLY knows his profession, so I suggest you listen to him. Perhaps you know Doug better than myself as I have never met him, However I have read some of his posts and yours, I must respectfully say from what I have read I really don't think I would heed your advice or his. pogo |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Quote:
I must respectfully say I see you two are cut from the same cloth! By saying you are respectful does not make what you say respectful, nor is it the "good manners" you espouse (or is it?) - as they say in the South "Bless your heart". Not heed his advice? Your loss. He is a successful professional and you are . . . sorry, can't tell. As you well know, Doug is not against manners, just the false "old fashioned Victorian Values". Good try misrepresenting him! I am not sure who is promoting "farting and nose picking". Your statement about this seem to me that you have no idea what you are talking about - or you are trying to cleverly misrepresent Doug (and possibly myself)in "Ad Hominem" and "Straw Man" arguments in your posts (or both). Purposely misrepresenting another person's argument . . . well, that is not "good manners". As anyone with an ounce of comedy knows snot and farts are simple biological functions and the humor is NOT in these acts, but in societies attitude toward them. This current society has deemed that doing so in public is not "good manners". It is because they are deemed "bad manners" that makes them humorous. If they gained acceptance, then they would not be funny anymore. In essence, they are jokes on society, and allow a little "safe" rebellion, and a laugh at those that try to pretend that they don't have such things as "snot and farts". Of course, there are other means of humor. Let's see, people laugh real hard at misfortune. Something bad happens to someone else, that can be funny. Someone being stupid, or different, that can be funny too. Coward situations, people acting uncharacteristically, can be funny too. Looks, that can be funny. Exactly what sort of humor do you and Dave use???? When a person hides his/her identity, I have a hard time taking them terribly seriously - especially when they are "new" to the Café. If they have a good argument (i.e. debate) that may not matter, but you don't, you either misrepresent, either intentionally or unintentionally. There seems to be an epidemic of people with "multiple personality disorder" here. I am not saying you are a manifestation of some other member or someone that can talk as long as they are not identified, but by being new AND not posting any ID in your profile makes it LOOK that way. If I were so inclined I could create a whole army of identities that drop out of nowhere and support my view, or attack another with spurious arguments. I suggest you not LOOK like that, or LOOK like a person who wants to hide their identity. But then again, you don't take my advice either. I'd take honesty over these "manners" any day. |
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pogo New user 19 Posts |
Quote:
I am not sure who is promoting "farting and nose picking". Your statement about this seem to me that you have no idea what you are talking about - or you are trying to cleverly misrepresent Doug (and possibly myself)in "Ad Hominem" and "Straw Man" arguments in your posts (or both). Purposely misrepresenting another person's argument . . . well, that is not "good manners". Hi, No misrepresenting if you are farting or nose picking or using such gags in your shows , you are in a position of influence to your audiance so you are therefore promoting such behaviour to the audience Pogo |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
"No misrepresenting if you are farting or nose picking or using such gags in your shows , you are in a position of influence to your audiance so you are therefore promoting such behaviour to the audience"......it ain't neccessarily so. Yes, I get laughs out of fart sounds and snot gags, but I often act "disgusted", that's what the kids find amusing. So in fact I'm reinforcing the idea that these things are disgusting, but also implying that it's OK to laugh at these things and not take them too seriously. (Having said that, I display my "disgusting" severed Monkey's Paw and Shrunken Head with delight).
Of course I don't expect everyone to heed my advice - in fact, I'm not suggesting that all you other guys out there go out and start putting gross stuff in your shows. Many of my shows have a bare minimum of these gags, and they may not suit your style at all. My posts will be helpful to some, and quite useless to others. That's the point of a debate, it's not a question of right or wrong, it's understanding other folks' point of view. Bare in mind that my act is a pirate act, not just magic. Kids kinda expect a pirate to be a bit gross, as do parents. I promise you, I've never had one negative comment about my humour. I did have a lady book me for her son's party with the proviso that I brought along my Jar of Snot, as her son had found it so hilarious! I was trying to make the point that "good manners" are a falsehood. Not that they're a bad thing, but that they are a poor indicator of what kind of a person you are. There are plenty of most unpleasant folk, who have perfectly good manners. Likewise, there are many seriously lacking in etiquette, who are wonderful human beings. Now, of course, an entertainer should have impeccable manners when dealing with clients. But your stage persona might have no manners at all, and be very funny. I'd never go that far, but I've seen it work. My perception is that this issue comes down to your performance, pace, and personality. I can well imagine that if a regular magician did the "peanut butter and snot sandwich" trick, the parents might find it a bit much. But as a pirate, it seems like the most normal thing to my audiences, that I should want to make such a snack. Horses for courses. |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Potty.
"pogo" (whomever he is) is either pulling your leg in a particularly nasty way, or has absolutely no understanding of comedy of any type. Let's not waste time on his inability. He will continue to misrepresent your position, and somebody may actually believe him. The pros here know you, and know do a great job. "pogo", at least for now, is a totally unknown. Let's get this back on track. |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
It made me laugh when today I arrived at a School Summer Camp for a pirate party, and the organiser asked straight away if I had my jar of snot with me - I didn't. She then asked if I had my Snot Plant, which luckily I did, and she was delighted that I also had some Snot Jam to include in my cake baking routine.
Maybe things are a bit snottier here in Blighty, everyone seems to love the stuff! :) |
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HauntingMagic New user Raleigh, NC USA 38 Posts |
You must get a lot of colds for all those props - or is it allergies?
Oops, it is me, the Captain, in my Bizarre clothing! |
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