There are a lot of fees associated with doing credit cards. Fine for large businesses, not small ones. Even if the credit card company only takes only 5% of your show and you charge $500 for a show, that's a $25 loss. Not that bad until you add in all your other expenses such as gas, advertising, supplies, etc.

Mike

You do the math:

5% fee on a %500 show = $25

Three months or more begging and pleading and threatening in order to get paid for your $500 show = (what's your time worth, anyway?) / (divided by "you may not get paid finally if this stretches on too long")

--------------------

Now do the equation again, factoring in shows you might not have gotten if you hadn't been able to accept credit cards.

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End of lesson on "cost of doinmg business." Any questions, class?

Mike,
Yes I have had a problem with them in the past and one center. What I did was at one of their other centers that I perform at. I spoke with the director and asked her to speak with the proper person and the center that didn't pay on time as agreed. It was resolved by her but took an extra two weeks to get paid! I was told payroll was done every two weeks for staff and outside entertainers. And at the helpful center, they choose after eight years in a row having my show not to book me this year. Because I raised my price for their center $25.00 for the first time in eight years.
Wayne...
P.S. I still enjoy performing shows for Kindercare for some reason!

Many day care centers also have huge turn over rates, from the director on down. This sometimes is not very helpful to the performer, as the person in charge that booked you once you arrive no longer works there!
Wayne...

What other service providers (not sellers of tangible goods) require payment upfront?

1) Prostitutes
2) Lawyers
3) ???

I'm with MagicGeorge on this. I've never had a problem getting paid. Maybe it wasn't THE SAME DAY I performed, but I've always been paid and never had a problem. Maybe I'm just really lucky, but I still think that demanding payment before performing isn't the image I want to create for my business.

Julian I agree, asking for payment in advance is about the same as saying I don’t trust you. Not a good way to try and do business, especially with birthday mom’s and daycares. Very few set out to get a free show, and I would think those that do actually try later, do it most of the time because they feel they weren’t treated fairly. Sure it may happen every blue moon where someone steals a show, but to link everybody else into this group is just not good business.


Dan,
On the credit card thing, it can be costly and I would certainly do the math first. It could come in handy for those that are selling things at the show, or to help the occasional show buyer “charge it” now instead of waiting. But for simple shows, I don’t know that it would be worth it in most cases. It’s more of a convenience for the customer than anything.

Tom

Payment up front? I wouldn't go that route. I do request a partial payment with certain venues to reserve a date and time. Daycares are not one of them. Directors have plenty to do, and, I believe, want as little extra work as necessary (Don't we all.) It's a different venue and requires one to roll with the punches a bit. As I said before, I've never had a problem getting paid. I have had to wait on occasion for a check. But only with the chains, and they always pay their bills -- eventually. A little patients is in order. If you understand that coming in, its no big deal.

I use Paypal for this for all my shows.
You have to set up a Business account and use something called "Virtual Terminal".
They charge $20 per month for this service. It's worth it to me.

Now when someone calls and wants a show, I charge them 50% right then and there.
Period.

Nobody complains.

Think of it this way...
Do you complain when you want to buy something and someone asks you for your credit card number. No.

Plus it makes your business seem even more professional and genuine when you take credit cards.

Then when someone says...
"what magic show, we don't know anything about a magic show!"
You just say, "ok, no problem" and drive off.

I'm disappointed that you have a problem with KinderCare. I worked from the International Home Office in Montgomery, AL from 83-86 and never had a problem. Actually, I don't know of a real reason why your check wasn't there at show time. It is possible.

I do know that when KinderCare lost Rob Hartly as Marketing VP things went into a tail spin. But paying the bills was certainly no problem. I don't think you have to deal with them at the center director level anyway. (Is it possible that this KinderCare center is just a franchise? That is a different ball game.)

My experiences with Kindercare were wonderful. I wish banks and hotels were as well run. (With them do insist on certified funds up front.)

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

I have over 30 or more years in magic and 26 years in daycares the last 3 years I have drop most of them due to poor pay and treatment. I don't give Birthday parties away free or shows free to day cares. To all the magician out there for doing a $75.00 shows or two shows for $100.00 is this what your worth think about it. My time, props and gas plus INS. BUSN.LIC. all my time learning magic and taking puppet classes. Target your shows and set your golds and see what the magician are chaging. I have targets set for other events but still do a few daycares and prices are going up.

I agree with you Julian...demanding payment before the show is not a good thing but when you have been burned by numerous daycare clients, what choice do you have?

I never have b-day clients, school clients, etc. pay me up front before the show starts as I know that I'll get paid. It seems to be the child care centers that give the problems which was my reasoning for having to be paid up front.

There is a very well known chain that I have heard from several other performers that have given them problems with payment as well and these performers are in other states. Hmmmm!

Rather than demanding payment up front, why not send an invoice with your confirmation of the event, and clearly state that the amount is due on the show date. Any organisation then has plenty of time to arrange a cheque. It's normally a problem because the financial people want an invoice before they generate a cheque, so they have the neccessary paperwork.
I find in practise, a lot of my daycare shows come at the very busiest times of year, and I simply don't have time to catch up on my invoicing. I arrive at the show without an invoice. Nearly every one will pay me anyway, and rely on me to return an invoice within a couple of weeks. But that's here in the UK, where things are probably a bit more easy-going than in the States?

I always send an invoice...always! However, even when booked 3 months in advance, the child care centers still drop the ball.

I send an invoice that has the due date as the date of the performance. At the bottom of the invoice is a note that says "Accounts more than 30 days past due will be charged a 1.5% monthly account maintainence fee".

I don't say that the fee is "interest" as there are some legal issues with a private party charging interest to governments such as schools and libraries where I do most of my work.

But the fee assessment results in fairly prompt payment, but there are still plenty of places I perform where they do NOT have a check ready for me. So what!?

If you are a professional performer (and I'm using the collective "you" in this sentence as I know that Todd and others are full-time pros) then you should have enough money in the bank that you don't HAVE to rush to the bank and deposit that check in order to keep the repo-man from grabbing your car. I hope so anyway.

So when the check is not ready, I go home, highlight that job on the calendar and wait 30 days before I even BEGIN to worrry about it. I would say 75% of my customers pay me on or before the show date. Of the other 25%, more than 95% pay within 30 days.

Of the few left, I call them on the phone and almost without exception they apologize profusely and immediately send a check. If you run a business it should come as no surprise that occasionally things fall through the cracks. It has happened in my business and I forgive others when it happens in theirs. I don't believe any of my customers are "out to get me". I think they have a lot of things to deal with each day and my payment is only ONE of them.

I can forsee the argument that I'm allowing some of my customers to use "my money" interest free for up to 30 days, but this is a very small concession I am willing to make in order to be known as someone who is easy to work with. I would rather have the job next year at my full-fee than to save a theoretical $3 in interest only to lose the job to someone more laid back when it comes to money.

--Julian Franklin

Very well put Julian!

I am in total agreement with you....if you are a full time pro and have plenty of work, you should have enough money in the bank to not have to worry about your car being repossed, your house being forclosed, etc. Hopefully others like you and me do manage their money wisely.

I do something close to what your invocie says as well Julian. I always make sure and ask when they book me if having a check on the day of the program will be a problem or if they mail it afterwards. If they let me know up front that I will not be paid that day, I never have a problem with it. It's when I arrive, setup and and told, "oh, by the way......." that I have a problem. To be honest, I have never inforcred the "late charge" that I mention on my invoice. It is simply their in the event that someone did decide to take months to pay me.

Business is business and I never want to be a thorn in anyone's side either. I don't want to sound like I have to have my money that day or else my family won't be able to eat. I request that my check be ready that day and if they told me that it would be and it's not, that is when I think I should be compensated for having to wait.

Getting paid late by schools and sometimes even libraries is just part of the job of being an entertainer. Since I had problems with childcare centers in the past and more than once, I always make sure to get paid up front or I might be looking at 90 days to get paid.

My last sentence above was in regards to child care centers only...not school and libraries. I almost expect to not get paid that day from schoos and libraries.

They called me back today and said there were problems at corporate office and apologized again and said the check will arrive. The fact that they are taking the initiative to follow-up with me is a very good sign. I beleive everything will work out fine.

I just did another Kindercare last night and received the check immediately after the show.

Hooray for Kindercare!

Thanks,
Mike

Mike
Good things come to those who wait, providing they work like h*** while they wait.

Another interesting money thread. In the final analysis, what recourse do you have in the USA and Canada and elsewhere in the world to enable you to recover a small debt?

Now it doesn't often happen to me over here but it has. Sometimes people will not pay or organisations stretch credit to the limits.

So, I will go to what is known here as The Small Claims Court. You register your claim with them and they send your claim to the debtor. They have a period in which to reply and either accept or challenge your claim.

Usually they will take it to the wire and pay up just in time. Costs them of course - your claim is the amount owed, interest at so much per day plus the court costs.

If they ignore the court the bailiffs are sent in and that is serious. For a £400 (US$800) debt they will seize goods they value to about £8000 (US$16000) to settle the debt. In other words about 20 times the debt value. Their costs are huge and second hand goods sell for only 5 or 10% of their book value.

The other option involves a lawyer and is known as a 'Winding Up Order.'

Basically you go to court and explain the debtor has not paid and the amount is so small they can be presumed to be insolvent. Easy to raise a Winding Up Order, costs a bit but all the costs are added to the debt along with lawyer and court costs and they have seven days to pay or they are wound up and closed down.

Bankruptcy is a severe condition in the UK. You can go to prison for being bankrupt and you can't run any business or be involved in the running of any business or even have a bank account, let alone credit cards or a cheque book.

So you see why when a winding up order arrives the proverbial really hits the fan.

It is usually sufficient in both cases simply to call the debtor and tell them what you will do if they don't pay in 72 hours.

As I say, I haven't needed to do this very often though I came close with a shopping centre recently. From the beginning of May to the middle of July. The words Winding Up Order produced a cheque in 24 hours!

So what happens in your neck of the woods? How do you recover outstanding debts?

Are there similar easy, straightforward systems available to you?

I have never had a problem being paid at a daycare

BUT

If the house has a for sale sign - or - the show is in a park.... I need cash.

I did get a bad check fron someone who lived in a 16 million dollar house once. they evidentally needed the money more then me.

PTAs, PTOs have made it difficult, from time to time, to see a paycheck.
After a fundraiser all the people disapeared - the PTA secretary took all the money and went on vacation. They asked me to wait till the next year and they would pay me the twelve hundred out of their next event!!!