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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Today I had a pretty big show, by my standards. It's a condo association summer picnic. I performed a 40 minute kid's show, followed by balloon animals for about 40 kids (forgot my pump, had to do all by mouth, it was 90 degrees out today and extremely humid, almost passed out), and finally, an hour of strolling for the adults. I did it last year, got great feedback, and was invited back this year.
Long story short: I made up a contract for the head of the condo association, we'll call him "Joe". Their picnic runs from 2pm-6pm. Last year I started my kid's show at 4pm, but this year, I changed the start time to 3pm in the contract, and planned on doing the kid's stuff from 3-4pm, then the adult portion from 4pm-5pm. All correspondence, up until this point, was through email. He signed the contract and emailed it back to me. So far, so good. So now today, I show up at 2:40pm, ready to set up for my 3pm show, and I walk over to the grill where Joe was grilling. I talk to him for a minute, discussing a location to set up, and he quickly points out that the "kids haven't even eaten yet, I thought you would do the show around 4pm, like last year?". I explain that I was planning on a 3pm show, just like I wrote up in the contract...that he signed. He said "to tell ya the truth, I didn't even read it, I just signed it" Ummm, ok?!?! I ask if we can meet in the middle, 3:30pm? Nope, he says the kid's will just be eating then - has to be 4pm. This was the debut show for my new bunny. He is just over 3 months old. I normally avoid outdoor shows like the plague, but this is a big show for me, and I make an exception for this one. It's 90 degrees and incredibly humid out, and I am concerned about the well-being of my bunny as it is. And now I am expected to wait another hour before doing my show. I didn't want to add extra stress to my young bunny - my plan was to do a short show and have my wife meet me at the condo complex right at the end of my show, to take the bunny back home (5 miles away). I had an hour of strolling to do after the kid's show, and I certainly didn't want to leave his travel cage unattended outside somewhere, nor did I want to leave it in the hot car. My wife was available to pick up the bunny at 3:40pm (the scheduled show's end time) but not 4:40pm (the new show's end time). End result - I was irritated and annoyed, but I make the customer happy. I literally sat in my car, with the air-conditioner on, for about 45 minutes, waiting for the people to finish eating so I could set up for the 4pm show. My bunny sat on the passenger side. During the strolling portion, I left the bunny in my car, with it running, and with the AC on. Because of Joe not reading the contract, and because it was all outdoors, I ended up leaving my car running for over two hours with the AC on, just to have a safe place for my bunny to wait. So what I am asking, is what you would do in this situation. As I said, this is a big gig for me, and a repeat customer for me. I want to make the customer happy. So in the end, he got his way, and I sat like a dope in my car, waiting. Did I have any other options here, considering I want the repeat business? Do I just grin and bear it? He admitted to not even reading the contract I wrote - yet what could I do, walk away? Refuse to go on? Demand compensation for my frustration and lost time? Or just say "no big deal - see ya next year!"?
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Danny,
Number one I think you are awesome. I always enjoy reading your posts and getting to enjoy the excitement of all of this being new for you (I remember that big walk around gig you had not too long ago that you nailed! ) To be 100% honest with you, this is why I do not work with livestock. I had a bunny FOR YEARS as a pet (His name was chippy, not that anyone cares. ) and I NEVER used him in a show for the reasons you state above. I truly and sincerely believe that we/us/magicians can offer a show that is just as entertaining, just as memorable, and just magical, without bunnies and gigantic flying plywood widgets. I think it takes more to do it that way but I also think that in the long run by having a unique show it separates us from the pack. I would suggest that before you get married to the bunny, if it were me, I'd drop it from the act and retire him to be spoiled family pet. Because once you use the bunny, and make it a center piece of your act, the bunny will be expected and requested at every engagement that you do. The bunny becomes the star of the show, in my opinion. I know there are a bunch of guys here that use bunnies to great effect in their acts that will give you a lot of practical advice from their perspective that will help a lot, but I just wanted to chuck in my two cents and say, "Dump the bunny! Before it's too late!" I'm hoping Tricky Ricky will chime in because I know he uses his little pal in every show and is a real pro. Any light he could shed will be golden. I also know this, if you decide to keep the bunny in the act you will find a way to make him comfortable. That is super important and really shows your professionalism. In the situation you were handed it sounds like you did the right thing right down the line and I wish you all the best for your future endeavors. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Just grin and bear it Danny. You did well. Doing business is not always easy, if it was, everybody would be doing it.
Many never read it, that’s why I say it’s worthless other than a reminder. He assumed that since it was “repeat” business everything was the same. Maybe you should have discussed with him the new time before hand. I agree with Danny on the bunny thing, to much that can go wrong. You did well, but most of all you did the right thing, be proud of that. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I have to agree with Danny, make the bunny a pet. First thing I thought when I saw you had a baby rabbit was "why would he bring out a bunny in that type of heat?", you did it, the people who hired you didn't. Another thing, and this is a bit of reality. Your contract is good for being paid and you do not dictate the pace of the day, the people running things do. Kids shows don't run on schedule, picnics don't run on schedule, either realize it or quit doing magic shows for those types of events. If you want to rent a theater and say on the poster "show time: 7 pm" then it is your venue and you start when you start. In the case referenced it isn't your venue and I'm not surprised the guy didn't read the contract. What did you put it it? "Show must start on schedule or I get paid and you lose out"?
Your final statement leads me to think you stress out too much for this field. He got his way because guess what, it is his show! He could have made you sit in your car the entire time then told you to take a powder if he wanted to and you should have tipped your hat, thanked him, and moved on. There are guys here who have gone to gigs year after year and never did the show yet got paid, I've gone to festivals and never did the show and got paid. Note that I do expect you to take this all wrong. Now if you are doing multiple shows in a day, and if I recall you have certain 'rules' you follow because you don't want to be away from your family (another reason you should reconsider performing) then you tell the person you have a window open and that you must get to another show or whatever so you must start between, say, 3:30 and 4. You TELL them this then put it in your little contract which no one reads other than to check the time, date, and dollars. Again, please be careful with the rabbit, I had one die due to heat at a show and learned the hard way and I still feel bad about the lil' guy. |
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-28 23:29, MagicSanta wrote: Well, how nice of you to expect that. Quote:
On 2007-07-28 23:29, MagicSanta wrote: I do shows on a part time basis. It is not my main source of income. Because of this, I have the luxury of declining shows that don't work for my personal schedule. For this, I should consider quitting performing? I don't see the logic there. But thank you for the suggestion. Maybe some people misunderstood the bunny thing a bit - I am not new to using a bunny in my show. This is my third rabbit, and my first one from a breeder (as opposed to a pet store). I do treat my bunnies as pets first. I just put him back in his cage a few minutes ago, after his daily social time being held and hopping around the living room. I also had 5 ice packs on his bunny box, as he sat in the shade under my table waiting for his appearance. I just don't want to make sure everyone realizes that I take good care of my bunnies, treat them as a pet first, and do everything I can to ensure their well-being. Anyway, I was really asking about adhering to contracts here - and I have gotten some unexpected advice and suggestions ranging from dropping the bunny from my show to quitting performing altogether. Interesting. My real question, I suppose, was at what point does "being flexible" become "being taken advantage of"? One hour, two hours? Three?
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
The reason I say drop the bunny is that with the outside shows there is always a good possibility that something will go wrong.
If you didn’t tell the man you changed the time I can’t see where you were taken advantage of. You goofed up. When they tell you to wait, there’s not much you can do except wait. Pulling out a contract that you haven’t fully explained would be taking advantage of him. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Tom is right you know. Listen, what it comes down to is this, get ready, it may upset some people....you are JUST a magician. They can't get magicians on on time at magic conventions, you want some guy tossing a picnic to bow to your schedule? It is part of the game and if you don't like it don't play. Come on, did you expect them to announce "Ladies and gentlemen, all food service and other activities must immediately cease...please, drop that hot dog, toss that soda, give your complete and undivided attention to a man who is here to mystify and amaze you for exactly 40 minutes....put your insurance company working hands together for.....DANNY DIAMOND AND BOOPSIE!"
As for being flexible I'd tell the person "hey, I have to hit the road at 6:00 so keep that in mind, hey, I've an idea, how about since there is a delay I start doing balloons now?". |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Danny,
A big part of what we do is in being flexible. Some performers seem to think that people hire us to do magic. If you believe that, that is a reason to reconsider performing. People hire us to make a special day even more so. that is what we do. That includes being as flexible as humanly possible. This guy made an honest mistake and was asking you to be flexible in my opinion. Taking advantage is demanding you start an hour late and stay an hour longer when you have a gig to go to, or asking you to help clean up. Having a bunny makes you less flexible, it just does because you have to care for the bunny. If it is an established part of your show then you will find a way to make do. I know a large part of why I do not have a bunny is so that my show is very, very, flexible. But I sincerely believe that a BIG part of what we do is allowing the day to be special FOR THEM by being as flexible as we can. In my opinion it is just as important as our performance. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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wardini Regular user 105 Posts |
Danny,
I echo the others sentiments on the use of livestock, but that's just my personal ethics. As for the show I think you did the right thing. It's easy to get a bad name for yourself and for the sake on an hour I don't think it was worth making an issue, particularly as you state that this was a big show for you. If you had a gig elsewhere and so the time was an issue then that would be different, but then you could have just dropped the strolling part. I also echo magicsantas view in that unless we have the reputation and stature of Copperfield we're just a man in a funny suit being payed to entertain. When does it become being taken advantage of? Well that's really a personal decision only you can make. If you get invited back next year add the extra hour onto the fee. Cheers, Wardini |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Quote:
Do I just grin and bear it? He admitted to not even reading the contract I wrote - yet what could I do, walk away? Refuse to go on? Demand compensation for my frustration and lost time? Or just say "no big deal - see ya next year!"? Danny you did the right thing, Grin and bear it!. The goal was to have a great performance and you did that. As for the contract, I know I sign a lot without reading them, such as auto repair, hospital visits etc. To enforce it could cause hard feeling and "bad mouthing" you as a performer would do more harm. A contingency plan would have been run the rabbit home and leave it out of the show. (5 miles away) Have an alternative routine for such instances. This is of course meaning you don't have the rabbit routine in the contract. For future contracts, you may want to leave the rabbit routine out in out-door events. As for leaving the rabbit out of the show or as others put it, retire it to a household pet. I must say I've used rabbits all my life and it is more than just a routine. It is a signature of the classic magician, a marketing point, and a love by so many children. The use of a rabbit is a personal issue and whether you use one or not is up to you. I've had over the years, 17 rabbits (Note: don't put them in the same room) and so many rabbit boxes and find each are worthy of keeping in the show. Many of the children magicians I consider friends and respect for thier performances use rabbits: David Ginn, Steve Taylor, Ken Scott, Mark Daniels, Mike Bent, Julian Franklin, Bruce Bray, Trixie Bond, Martini, to name a few, all have used rabbits regularly, so it is OK to use a rabbit, also there are many other lesser known magicins who are great that also use rabbits as well as doves. And we cannot forget those who chose not to use them for varies reasons, the biggest is their upkept and daily maintenace. Chalk this up to experience, and plan a routine for those events where you leave out the rabbit. Dennis Quote:
My real question, I suppose, was at what point does "being flexible" become "being taken advantage of"? One hour, two hours? Three? This is one reason I don't really like doing multiple shows in one day. Being frustrated because a customer is inconsiderate does raise my blood pressure. I chose at most to do two shows in a day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. (There are exceptions) A rabbit, as well as the experience being late for a gig is not a good feeling. It also places the customer, from the start, in a negative frame of mind, something I don't like. (Worse yet is being ill and doing a job) Anything beyond an hour is "being taken advantage of" and you note that on your booking card or sheet. Charge for it next year, increase the price $50 for outside gigs or turn down the job. If I have a job, rather than being late, I will cut the show and explaing that I was willing to go on scheduled time, however, I do have another show so I must leave at the contracted time. You might lose that person as a customer for next year, but you don't ant to disappoint another child who is waiting for you to arrive at the scheduled time. Another option is to do less birthday parties and do more school shows or daycare centers, who most of the time have a schedule and you are plugged into that scheduled time. Dennis
Dennis Michael
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Communication (or lack of it) is the key word in this problem. E-mail "contracts" need to be followed up by a written (printed hardcopy) contract, reaffirming what was said in the e-mail (it can even be a printed copy of the e-mail). Changes need to be first discussed in person, and then followed up in writing so everyone is clear on who said what and what was changed. A finalizing phone call shortly before the show date (especially if the contract was signed a couple of weeks or more before the show date) reaffirms what both parties have agreed to in the contract and allows for any last minute changes if necessary.
Although this is not part of the problem, a follow up phone call is always nice, telling the person what a good time you had and hoping he or she had the same. You can also do that in a "Thank You" card. Customer satisfaction is based on good communication.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Thanks for the thoughts everyone - in particular Dennis, for several very good ideas and thoughts on the matter.
Here's the thing - I KNOW my role in the situations I perform in. I hardly think I am some big-time star that deserves a red carpet rolled out upon arrival. Ask anyone who knows me in the real world, and they will tell you that I am a very humble and understanding person. - If this show was indoors, this post would have never been made. - If I did not use a rabbit, this post would never have been made. - If no contract was drawn up, this post would never have been made. My point is, I have definitely had to wait past my show start time many times in the past. And although it can be annoying, I am always very understanding and flexible. They are the customer, I am there for them, they are the boss. I get it. It was really my bunny I was concerned with, not my precious time. I tried to plan the gig strategically, to minimize any stress or danger to my bunny, and Joe's failure to read a very short contract with four main points (date, time, place, price) resulted in my bunny being out for longer than I wanted him to be. Yes, I could have and should have spoken to him in person about the time change. I guess I just assumed that such a small contract would have been read, and any objection to the show time, would have been brought up when he read it. Now I am seeing that not reading a contract, is a common practice. Ok, lesson learned. I used a bunny in my show last year for them, and the bunny production was listed in the contract and asked for specifically. Believe me, I thought about dropping him from yesterday's show, but I thought with my planning for his pick-up right after his appearance, and with the ice-packs cooling his box a bit, I thought he would be ok. And like I said in my original post - I really avoid outdoors shows at all costs. I do three of them annually. Two of them I do without the bunny, and yes, I am more flexible that way. I will talk to the condo association next year, about dropping the bunny from that show. Again, thanks for the thoughts everyone.
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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Terry Owens Inner circle Ft. Wayne, Indiana 1707 Posts |
I once had someone hire me for a gig that was 1 1/2 away, I had the address and everything...dove intow, but when I travled to the city, there was no such address. Here I had the dove, couldn't leave him in the car so I had to travel all the way back home...for nothing. But that was just one occurence in 37 years of performing. Just know that animals can tie you up, and I agree with you that Dennis gave you some excellent advice, as he always does.
I was talking with Dick Stoner this past week and he shared with me about his rabbit years ago had died during his show and he goes to pull the rabbit out and said those things stretch when they're not alive...they're not like a spring rabbit. Which is an option too... I don't understand why some have to be so harsh and critical over a simple statement...(I thought I saw pitchforks and torches in the background)I don't understand why someone would tell you that maybe you shouldn't be performing if you don't want to be away from your family. I commend you Danny for putting your family first...it's your business and you can do whatever you want. So don't let some of the others discourage you. |
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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2179 Posts |
Hey Danny, what you should of done is stapled a small note (preferably handwritten to show its a personal note to him) in front of your contract, Just some general nice talk about how your looking forward to performing at the venue again, wishing him well and telling him due to what ever you've changed the iteniary and your going to be doing the show at an earlier time and if theres any problems to give you a call. Then go into more details in the actual contract. People don't like change, warn them first!
The only thing I can think off is that it might mess his plans up for the day...really you need to work around them not the other way round... When I had rabbits I wouldn't put them in the show if the show was more than 30/45mins away. I would ask on the phone where they are from if they had too far away I'd sell them the show but minus the rabbits. I didn't mention it on my site or anything. Best for next year! M:C |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-29 08:15, Danny Diamond wrote: Although this has been said in a few ways, and you seem to get it, I just want to bring a thought to a point (so others get it, too)... *** I think it is unwise to try and communicate something "new" to a customer via my contract / invoice. I tell them on the phone, etc. I can then back that up with my contract or FAQs page, etc. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
[quote]On 2007-07-29 06:42, Dennis Michael wrote:
Quote:
It is a signature of the classic magician, a marketing point, and a love by so many children. Actually, just as many customers find it hackneyed and figure the entertainer is trying to make up for a lack of talent by selling them the bunny. This is what I hear from my customers when I tell them I don't have a bunny. Quote:
Many of the children magicians I consider friends and respect for thier performances use rabbits: David Ginn, Steve Taylor, Ken Scott, Mark Daniels, Mike Bent, Julian Franklin, Bruce Bray, Trixie Bond, Martini, to name a few, all have used rabbits regularly, so it is OK to use a rabbit, also there are many other lesser known magicins who are great that also use rabbits as well as doves. And we cannot forget those who chose not to use them for varies reasons, the biggest is their upkept and daily maintenace. I do not wish to speak for Mike Bent, but I do know he does not use a rabbit in his show, and furthermore he thinks it is cruel to do so. Take a look for yourself http://abrakidabra.com/abrakidabra!'sf..html He also does not float the birthday kid. Just two reasons why I think Mike is awesome by the way. The entire list is actually very, very, long. Danny, When taking advice on this site it is a good idea to be careful of mis information. There are some people who have built themselves up to be a lot more experienced than they actually are. While kind in their intention, they spread a lot of mis information. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but it truly is something that can bite you in the backside if you listen to them. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Bill Nuvo Inner circle 3094 Posts or 2742 Posts |
I would have to say, and this is only my opinion, that anything past a half hour is definately taking advantage of you. Unfortunately you had your bunny with you so your choices were limited. You could've done the walk-a-round for the adults and then the kids show after. Your emails should have discussed the timing of the events, not just on the contract. I almost always send two reconfirming emails about the details before I send a contract. A phone call is much better.
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Quote:
Actually, just as many customers find it hackneyed and figure the entertainer is trying to make up for a lack of talent by selling them the bunny. This is what I hear from my customers when I tell them I don't have a bunny. Yes, this could be the case, but I have never seen it. Perhaps in your area this happens, or a animal is an upsell. Jax (my parrot) is always a big hit, and comes to nearly every gig (she is not an upsell). Jax loves the exposure, and it is an advantage over those without livestock. I think not using animals usually is more about ease of the performer, not the customer. Animals take a lot of extra work. Danny I think using a bunny is great. You do need to take proper precautions for da bunnies sake. An ice pack in a towel is an easy way to insure the little feller does not over-heat. Also, if he is going to be outside, have him in a harness so he can't bolt. Outside gigs are always tricky, and I try to avoid them. Check out this forum http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewf......13&14908 |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I’m not against using the bunny in shows, I think they’re great for kids, and I disagree that it is cruel for someone like Danny to use them in a show. You can tell he takes care of it. I just think depending on them to use in every outdoor show is asking for trouble. The delays will happen, and a rabbit kept inside all the time will get hot when he’s outside in the heat.
Doesn’t take an experienced magician to understand that. Ask any 12 year old pet owner. Sometimes we try to overlook the common sense stuff and turn to magicians to agree with us. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Quote:
Actually, just as many customers find it hackneyed and figure the entertainer is trying to make up for a lack of talent by selling them the bunny. This is what I hear from my customers when I tell them I don't have a bunny. In my experience with dealing with people, I have found that others try to justify their reason for their choices. Many times it is in the form of put-downs and negatives. This action is done in hopes they can elevate themselves above others. In every instance I have use a rabbit, it always goes over well. I never appear the rabbit; the birthday child does to his delight as well as the parents. Excuses like allergies are just that, excuses to justify not using a rabbit. People know if their child has allergies long before hiring an entertainer. Many of my bookings are from my website which shows a child producing a rabbit and I tell this to them on the phone. If I can't perform the show because of prior commitments, I give them three numbers of area magicians who use rabbits. This is what they want and I give it to them. I have had more people compliment me on my performance and how much they loved the bunny routine. It’s a toss up between the Pro-Viper, Chair Suspension and the Rabbit routine, on which the kids like best. Quote:
Danny, I am not sure who Danny Hustle is referring to and I know it’s not me because I was performing magic long before he was born and doing full-time school shows while he was in grade school. I've read this comment several times in other threads and can't image who he is referring too. Since it can be anyone, I am not sure why a statement like this was even made. Base on that statement it can be any one of the 32,291 café members. On the Magic Café, I have not found this statement to be true at all. In most posters, they do try to help others. In several cases, threads have turned sour by flaming and finger pointing. Such actions really do reflect on that poster. While it is a good idea to be cautious when reading other points of views, it is best to view each persons positive contributions to the Café and the field of magic, and make your own determination if you feel that information is worthy of use. Some routines work well in the hands of others, but for me, it may not fit my style. Listen to your inner-self and make your choices based on what you feel is right for you. By the way, Danny, back in 1964 or 1965 (I forgot it has been so long ago), I won first place in the MAES stage contest for pulling a large rabbit out of a motorcycle helmet. And, I have been using a rabbits before that event and ever since. The best advice it seems is the advice from one who has a history of using rabbits, in their shows. I do respect a choice of not using a rabbit, however, many times the justification to me, appears as an excuse on why they don’t use a rabbit. Continue using the Rabbit and learn from this experience. Dennis
Dennis Michael
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