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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
I know you've all had this happen at least once. How do you handle this tactfully?
I did a pretty killer finger-ring-on-rope effect. The lady at the table told me how a magician at her business function did linking finger rings. "Can you do that?" They were ready to hand me another ring to link together. Now, the gut instinct is to say "Heck, lady, any ham-handed magician with $50 for a knockoff Himber ring can do that!" -or- "Um ... yeah, I can do that. See me next week." -or- "No, I can't do that." Leaving them to think they were right to hire the other guy instead of you since he does that cool linking ring trick. -or- (what I did) "Wow, that sounds like a cool trick." Then show them something better (or try to, anyway.) If you can do something, the magician's ego makes it difficult to say you can't ... even though you can't at the moment because conditions aren't right (and if someone can tell me how to link two borrowed rings together at a table of three, PM me quick!) And, in their eyes you are now an inferior magician. Besides, you'd be lying if you said you can't do it. |
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DylanTolly New user Australia 94 Posts |
"Wow, that sounds like a cool trick." Then show them something better (or try to, anyway.)"
I am sure this doesn't happen to often, if it does, there isn't much you can really do (unless of course you can perform the trick ). Just suck it up, laugh it off and hit em with your hardest hitting effect to erase all memory of that other magician -Dylan |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Dylan you really miss the point.
IT HAPPENS A LOT! It happens from a lot of perspectives. It happens because you are doing a great job, they are having a GREAT TIME, and just ASSUME you can do magic! Why would you NOT be able to do that? The guy is complimenting you really. Think about it. He had a woman tell him this great thing. Then he compares you to THAT! He just figures you can do it. I don't think these people are being jerks, just trying to have fun. I have a series of things I say. I am fortunate. I don't leave much room for people to talk too much. When it does happen Heba had the best line, which gets me out of it every time. "You wanna do magic, get your own joint". (Or show) It is very funny, and really settles people down. It is not insulting and it does not answer the question one way or the other. The next one is really easy also. "I am just doing some tricks, not trying to start a cult". Again non commital, and yet works like a charm every time. I hope this idea helps. I don't suggest using those lines as they fit my personality very well, but the idea works great. It has to be addressed. If not they will keep at it. I address it without saying yes or no either way. BUT they do get the idea not to keep at it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
"Most good magicians have what's known as a 'signature piece': one effect that is theirs to call their own. Houdini had his 'Water Torture Cell', Harry Blackstone had his 'Vanishing Bird Cage', and so on. The 'Linking Finger Rings' was, in fact, the signature piece of Orson Welles. Rather than show you someone else's signature piece, I'll show you mine."
At this stage it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a killer effect of your own. (Recalling another thread that caused some exuberant discussion, you might try Paul Green's Jeopardy!) |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
"Yes, I can, but you've already seen that, so it wouldn't be as special for you this time. Let me show you something else."
Works for me.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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DylanTolly New user Australia 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 01:27, Dannydoyle wrote: When I am performing for people I very rarely get asked this question, yes it has been asked before and most times, I can perform the trick. If not the exact trick, a slight variation (no pun intended) of the trick that gives the same effect. Explain to me how I am missing the point? Of course they think you can do it, I am aware of that. YOU have missed the point of my post. If asked to do a trick and you cannot perform the trick at that moment, there is no reason to let it get you down, or affect your performance at all. Like I said 'laugh it off', which can be achieved with many one-liners. Just say something light hearted and move on to another effect. I don't see how this is any different to your post? Really, the only thing you added was to address the question, but not answer it, which I agree with. I definitely don't think I 'really missed the point'. However, I appreciate your warmness to me, perhaps next time before I offer my opinion, I'll shoot you a PM. On another note, I for one would never say "You wanna do magic, get your own joint", as I DO find this offensive. If I had an entertainer say that to me I'd take a step back, and not in a good way. To me, the line gives the impression you want them to just keep quiet. Let alone the fact it doesn't really address the question. Magic shouldn't be 'sit there, listen, don't interrupt my show', especially close-up (Although the way you perform may not be structured this way, the line would certainly give me that impression). Getting involved, having a laugh and being amazed is what magic is all about... EDIT: "Yes, I can, but you've already seen that, so it wouldn't be as special for you this time. Let me show you something else." - A great light hearted one liner! Thanks, -Dylan |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
I would say "No I'm not familiar with that but it sounds like a good trick. I would love to see it sometime" and continue with my act.
or "This isn't Stump The Magician sir. Its my show and I get to make the rules." or "That's funny I don't remember taking requests" or "He linked the rings together. That's it? I usually set them on fire too. Does anybody have any gasoline?" or "Yes I know that trick and if you're really good maybe I'll show it to you." Of course you never do the trick but it does make them behave. or Pretend to call over a bouncer point at the guy and yell "HAVE HIM REMOVED" or "He did what? that's impossible. Were you drinking that night sir?" "You didn't eat the brownies did you?" , Jonathan |
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Magic_Steve Inner circle Maryland 1476 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 04:32, kammagic wrote: Hhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That;s funny Jonathan. Haven't laughed like that since I saw Clerks2 the other night! My favorite is the rings on fire one! hahaahaha!! LOL! The drinking and brownies one was pretty *** funny as well. Good stuff! Thanks! Steve |
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Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
You do get this type of comment more and more these days, especially with the large number of television specials being aired. As Danny suggested, the spectator is asking a very serious question in most cases and, as such, he deserves a serious answer. As a result, I try to avoid the glib responses.
Instead, I will often come out and say something like, "That IS a great effect. In fact, that's one of the true CLASSICS of magic and it's one of the effects that I do perform once in a while. But in addition to performing the more traditional effects, I like to develop leading edge, original magic. For instance, let me show you a very special effect that I have been working on". Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 04:32, kammagic wrote: Finally a topic we agree on whole heartedly! Shall we continue to explain WHY glib responces work, and even the smart alec ones are great? It is going to be a long thread. Dylan, you need to tell Heba Haba Al, Matt Schulien, Eddie Fecter, Don Alan, Doc Eason, Bob Sheets, Eric Mead, heck I believe Max Maven has a similar responce that you would find "offensive". See here is the concept. IT IS A JOKE. An amusing rebuttal. It causes them to LAUGH. Laughing is a big part of working with people in a restaurant situation. IF you had worked one at any time then you would have a basis for comparison. EVERY close up giant I have mentioned used the type of lines I and Johnathan are saying, and a whole lot more. I just don't have enough space to list them. The most notorious was the Senator himself. See you seem to want restaurant magic to be all about you and the performance. In all honesty it is less about you than anything, and certainly not at all about the magic. It is about the guests. These lines are NOT at a guests expence. It is amusing to them and to all around them. It eases tension. Your proposal is to simply play it off as if you know everything and are the all powerfull, and move onto something better? Work for a year. I don't mean do a year of research, work for a year, then you have a good idea on how you want to handle this. Till then, maybe telling and being critical of those who have done it for over 20 years, let alone being critical of all the others I listed, would hold some water. Wait till you KNOW from experience.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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patrick flanagan Inner circle lisle, illinois 1045 Posts |
This is kind of nice...Danny and Jonathon sitting by the fire playing nice together...lol...got room for one more?
Dylan, these lines are used to acknowledge the spectator, not to brush them off....when said tongue in cheek, with a big smile, it makes for great entertainment, and returns the focus to your routine. When I pass out coins to be "examined", usually someone will put one in their pocket. They are trying to be funny, and I let them. When I'm getting the coins back, I may turn sleightly and call out for security; or, tell him "Don't make me go in there and get it, sir." A great Bill Malone line when someone comes up with a funny comment is, "I'm sorry but I'm the one telling the jokes around here." Can't remember who used this line for when someone interupts, "Excuse me but I don't remember writing in a speaking part for you". Again, it's all about your personality and if you can deliver these lines without being confrontational. If you can't, then don't use them. People ask me about effects all the time. Things they may have seen in person or on TV and ask if I can do them. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't, but even if I can, I am certainly not going to do that effect just then. I just think it would make me look like a musician at a piano bar where one is just the same as the other. They play all the same songs and take requests. I personally don't want magic to be looked at like that. Now if they request an effect that they have seen me perform before and ask if I can show it to their friends, then of course I would do that, because they are recognizing me and associating an effect with me. Good way to be remembered. Patrick |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Well Patrick hits it on the head again.
It is about interaction and how you are remembered. THAT is the key.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kammagic Inner circle 1304 Posts |
I also think that when someone is rude to you its only fair to be rude to them as long as its done jokingly. Its funny and he and everyone else knows you are saying "Shut Up! Jack Ass"
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
I don't think there is anything bad in admitting that you coudnt do it. If you try to present that you can do it all then you will just get into trouble when they start to ask you to do bigger things like predict lotto numbers and such. I usually answer honestly if I get question like that that I simply don't do that one.
J-M |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
You could tell them that you're perfectly capable of linking the rings together, but that it's the getting-them-apart that you haven't quite mastered. (I usually say that I haven't finished that chapter in the book yet.) So, if they don't mind leaving their wedding ring with you so that you can continue to practice . . . .
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 12:58, kammagic wrote: The question isn't whether it's fair; the question is whether it's advisable. As Patrick mentioned above, for some performers it definitely isn't advisable. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I've worked all sorts of venues, sometimes strolling, sometimes as a stage act, sometimes as a standup act. Heck, I've done this for 30 years. I never give a spectator a rude response to a question about whether I can do something they saw someone else do. If they ask me in an offensive way, I might be a little sarcastic, but I don't want to cost a restaurant I work in any business. I'm not there for that purpose.
People around here know what I used to do for a living. I'm retired now, so it's not as big a deal, but every time there is a new guy on television, or when someone has seen some magic at a party, I do get questions like that -- IF -- I give them the opportunity to ask them. Here's how I handled one a while back. I had taken my van in to get it serviced, because I was getting ready to go out of town for a string of illusion shows. The mechanic asked me if I had seen "that David Blaine guy" on television. He apparently had been impressed by DB, so it would not have been a good idea to say something like -- "AH, he's no good, he uses, etc..." you know, the standard sour grapes kind of response. So I said, "No, I didn't see his show, but several people who saw it said they liked it. What did you think?" He proceeded to describe Blaine's version of one of the classic card tricks. He wondered if I could do it. I replied, "That sounds very interesting. I would have liked that one. Here's one that I do have a lot of fun with." And I did the ID for him. Blew him away. He called the other mechanics in and asked for me to do something for them. So I did OOTW. I could have started a religion. So, let's analyze this. I didn't put the mechanic down. I didn't put DB down. I just did a couple of things that I usually have on me, and did them with the same presentation I would use for a paying client. In a restaurant once, I had a guy ask me if I knew a trick called Scotch and Soda. I asked him if he did it. He said that he did. So I asked him if he would like to see me do it. He replied that he would. I did the version that many of you have gotten from me, that uses regular coins. He had no idea that I wasn't doing a standard S&S until I told him to drop the half dollar into the ashtray and it rang like a bell. Again, I fooled him. He also liked it. The main thing is this: no matter what you are doing in a restaurant or any other show, your first duty is to make the spectator like you and the place you are working. If you don't do that, you aren't doing your job right.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 15:49, Bill Palmer wrote: Wise words to be certain.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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DylanTolly New user Australia 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 11:41, Dannydoyle wrote: Danny, you make a lot of assumptions about the way I perceive restaurant magic. I do not want it to be all about me, I am well aware when performing it is ALL about the spectator. Hence the EXACT reason I put myself in a spectators situation when thinking of what and what not to say. Your post implies that I do not use lines such as the ones listed in Mr Kamm's post, on the contrary, I in fact love the lines he listed. My problem was with the particular line you listed, yes it is slightly amusing, but to me when being performed for, I would not find that line funny, and would be offended by it. I really don't see where you got that I seem to think magic is all about me and my performance, rather than the spectator? Of course if I think something is offensive to me, I am not going to say it to my spectators, which is quite the opposite to what you imply about me. I am aware I have not worked at a restaurant as a magician before. That doesn't mean I don't perform for people on a regular basis, and know how to interact with spectators. I also don't understand where you get the fact that in a situation like this, my 'proposal' is to: "to simply play it off as if you know everything and are the all powerful, and move onto something better?" My comment was: "Like I said 'laugh it off', which can be achieved with many one-liners. Just say something light hearted and move on to another effect." Where in there does it make out as if I would imply I know everything and that I am the all powerful? Saying something 'light-hearted' sounds quite the opposite to me. You have agreed to the one-liners that Mr Kamm has used, which I think are also great and in the situation I would use lines similar to those. Please don't misjudge me, I am more than happy for people to argue with me! I LOVE it when people disagree with me, I learn things, the very reason why I am here. However, if you are going to argue with me, please make sure you understand where I am coming to, without making assumptions about the way I perceive things, and the way I perform. -Dylan |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Dylan:
I don't want this to sound like a colossal put down, but you can read all the books on restaurant magic you want to. You can read all the information on performance theory that are out there. You can kibitz all you want to. But NOTHING will tell you more about how restaurant work actually works than getting out there and doing it. When I first got started in magic as a profession, I had been a front man for a musical-novelty group for almost a dozen years. I had worked behind the counter in magic shops, and I had worked in the clubs, strolling, during intermissions. The whole dynamic changed when I became "THE MAGICIAN," rather than "The Guy in the Band who is visiting our table." As the front man for the band, I had instant identification. As a strolling magician, I could easily be perceived as an interloper. It took me about two weeks to figure out what I didn't know and another month to really learn it. I'm still learning, though, even though I have basically retired. I never know when I'll have to go out and work again, so I keep my chops in shape. Remember, you really can't judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. By then, you will be a mile a way, and you will have his shoes.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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DylanTolly New user Australia 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-02 18:14, Bill Palmer wrote: I agree, I can never know how restaurant magic works without performing it myself. One of the big reasons I am trying to get out there performing as soon as possible. However, I find it strange that Danny has immediately made so many assumptions about the way I perform and perceive magic. Especially because when I read the posts of mine he refers to, I can't imagine how he can come to these assumptions. Really, I agree with the way Danny would handle this situation, but I would not use the same lines, simply because it's not my style. -Dylan |
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