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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I am. of course AGAINST such behaviour, as I'm sure would be any reasonable person.
To play devil's advocate though (seems appropriate), wouldn''t a Headline Prediction that predicts a Catastrophe or other negative event fall into this logic, too? Do you suggest that people don't do headline predictions of negative events? If a Performer has committed to predicting a certain day's newspaper headline, and the day's headlines read: 6 Year Old child Kidnapped!, what would you suggest? (Note: This is ONE of the reasons I won't do headline predictions, by the way.) - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts |
I think Geller takes that to a brand different level, Entity. Sometimes he sounds just like Sylvia Browne, or any other of those fake psychics that only care about thesemlves. But I agree that tragedies shouldn't be used during a performance either, at least not as the main issue and in a disrespectful way. Mentalism should be done for entertainment after all.
Anyways, I vote for Against. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
DJM: But you don't answer my question completely... If you had committed to a prediction of a newspaper headline for a certain day's newspaper, you obviously have no control over whether the headline will be positive or negative. If it were negative, and you'd already committed to predicting it, what would you suggest doing? Cancelling the prediction?
- entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts |
Of course not. But like I said, it can be done in a respectful way and without making a big deal of the tragedy itself. Just of predicting the headline in general. And this is within the contest of the performance.
What Geller does is telling all those storits OUTSIDE of the performance in real life, and makes it seem like it's part of reality. It's not just some illusion anymore. And I've never heard of a mentalist who claims he could have saved the people who are mentioned in the headline, or preventing the tragedy from happening in the first place. That would just be bad taste in my opinion. |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
DJM
You're off topic, if you wish to continue using other peoples tragedies as fodder for your posts and wish to have your own poll, please create your own thread. Tony |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Tony: I'd assumed the poll was over and already sent to Geller, and so further discussion of the concepts behind the poll and attending issues were fair game.
Sorry if I've stepped on someone's toes, here. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Entity
I was talking about the post from DJM of starting a different poll within this thread. Tony |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
How can a message be PERSONAL if you don't do it yourself?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Spitting into the wind:
To Tony Iacoviello - Your ongoing defense of a fraud like Geller is reprehensible. I'll proudly be a poor conjurer rather than a wealthy fraud. To Anabelle - Your ringing endorsement of Tony's rant has changed my view of you. I'm sorry I contributed to your upkeep by buying Beneath the Mask. I just deleted it from my computer. To DJM - I admire your ethical clarity and tenacity. Go you! To entity - I had become interested in headline predictions recently. Now you've given me reason to reconsider all that. Thanks for the new perspective. To Drew McAdam, who has better things to do - When Ian Rowland recommended a book of yours, I transferred to you the respect I have for him. My mistake. Fornicate mentalists.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-06 12:13, seraph127 wrote: BRAVO - except for the last sentence. Mentalists in general are not the problem - just crassly commercial, self-promoting, unethical, self-delusional, dishonestly deceptive ones claiming to be the "real deal" are, no matter whether they call themselves psychics, paranormalists, intuitionists,… or mentalists. |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Quote:
BRAVO - except for the last sentence. Mentalists in general are not the problem - just crassly commercial, self-promoting, unethical, self-delusional, dishonestly deceptive ones claiming to be the "real deal" are, no matter whether they call themselves psychics, paranormalists, intuitionists,… or mentalists. or lawyers. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Lawyers and liars I often ponder on the simularity.
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Anabelle Special user 951 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-08-06 12:13, seraph127 wrote: I'm sorry you feel that way. Thanks for the plug though and since you deleted your copy I am willing to give one away to the first person who sends me a message with the interest of owning it. And Arnon, I've dated a couple of lawyers and have met quite a few more (there are a lot of them here in the gables, specially near the university of miami) talk about "crassly commercial, self-promoting, self-delusional, dishonestly deceptive ones claiming to be the "real deal"". Wow. Anabelle |
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Virungan Inner circle Here and There 1156 Posts |
"The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted our spoons" -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Or in this case, bent them... These posts are becoming increasingly futile- Drew's point was not advocating the false curing of coma patients etc etc but whether so called psychics and mediums have created an environment in which there is increased interest in the realms in which they work, which happen to be shared by mentalists, magicians, bizarrists, mizzarists etc be they fake frauds or the f***ing fandango. Randi and Houdini would both agree that their tussles with mediums were good for the box office receipts, and its the ongoing turf war in the realms of the unknown that create enough mystery to make Joe Public turn away from the tube and the daily grind, if only for a minute.. And that's your (presumably) bread and butter... V PS Annabelle, I'll gladly take that book that was so dramatically tossed out with the bathwater a little earlier
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I think that lumping any one group of people together and saying that they ALL share certain attributes or points of view or ethical boundaries or opinions might be a mistake.
- entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Virungan Inner circle Here and There 1156 Posts |
Never mentioned ETHICAL boundaries- just the similar realm in which they work, and profess, or recreate, particular abilities...
In any such shared sphere of interest there is bound to be different boundaries and plenty of debate- look at genetics or evolutionary biology, or theology..
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I wasn't responding to your post, Virungan, but rather to the ones prior to yours.
I don't think that many would disagree with Aron's (perhaps overly-agressive) argument that SPECIFIC people (crassly commercial, self-promoting, unethical, self-delusional, dishonestly deceptive individuals claiming to be genuine psychics) are bad for Mentalism. If all of those characteristics don't apply to us, why would we feel insulted or threatened? To then attack Arnon's profession as a group seems unwarranted. If we can't call for a certain level or standard of professional behaviour(in Arnon's case, decrying those specific types he mentioned), then where does that leave Mentalism as a Profession? Or as an Art? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Virungan Inner circle Here and There 1156 Posts |
Agreed...
But who draws the line and where? DJM raises the obvious black and white polarity, but as we drift into the grey areas (such as the aforementioned headline prediction) that line may fall across many of our toes... And in this grey area the debate clearly may rage forever...
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...
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Carlos the Great Inner circle California 1234 Posts |
My turn:
I don't like Mr. Geller in the least. However, I wish him the best in his TV show and in further performances. While I make like or dislike a person's choices, in the end, they are THEIR choices and, in the end, nothing he does hurts me personally. And remember, I was an "against". -CtG
Cognite tute
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
A question, Carlos:
If a person's choices hurt your profession, your friends, your family, your country (any of the above)would you feel the need to speak up, or to act? How far removed from you must a person's bad choices affect things before it becomes a concern for you? Virungan: You said: "But who draws the line and where? DJM raises the obvious black and white polarity, but as we drift into the grey areas (such as the aforementioned headline prediction) that line may fall across many of our toes... And in this grey area the debate clearly may rage forever..." I don't think that means that the debate is without merit. That's why I brought up the Headline Prediction example. It's worth thinking about and discussing. Some here had never thought of the implications that I mentioned until we discussed it here. Perhaps through discussion we might be able to affect some sort of agreement about the professional standards of behaviour for Mentalists. No ONE person can draw the line, but as with many other professions, a consensus might be arrived at and acceptable professional standards can be suggested. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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