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Brett Meyer
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Charleston, SC
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Let's just go with Sasquatches.

That has a nice ring to it..."The 3-card monte players are the Sasquatches."

I like that.
We magicians are of a unique lot. We aspire to deceive. We are liars. We are cheats. We are con artists. We can not be trusted. But we mean well.
patrick flanagan
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Then who is the Yeti?
Dannydoyle
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The Skunk Ape in Florida, the New Jersey Devil, the Amominable Snowman, even if it is spelled wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-07 11:45, patrick flanagan wrote:
Kamm,
Why doesn't it surprise me that you would have a contradicting viewpoint. You usually do. I'm wondering if you just enjoy the sparring. My concern is that I would hate for people to have the same negative connotation for close up entertainers as they do for say... a used car salesperson or insurance agents. I bet the honest and reputable used car salesperson would love to be able to approach a prospective buyer without having to first validate him/herself. The used car salesperson must first overcome years and years of negativity resulting from arrogant and unscrupulous colleagues. Is that how you want our craft to be viewed? Just so everyone knows....this isn't directed at Cory.... Do you want to approach tables having to first break down barriers that the guests may have due to an arrogant, insulting, or an unprepared performer that they encountered previoulsy? Kamm, you are a working professional, and I'm surprised that you would be so casual about how your craft is perceived by the people that may hire you. Maybe you just like the challenge. Personally, I would much rather encounter guests who have had fabulous experiences with close up entertainers. Call me lazy, but I would rather put more effort into my performance than in overcoming these obstacles.
Jeez??? Exactly.
Patrick



Yes you are lazy. Any good used car saleman knows how to present himself and show his customer he is not the stereotypical saleman. In our bussiness we meet all kinds of people and we need to be able to deal with them all. I agree with the customers that hate bad magicians that's why I'm not one of them.

, Jonathan
Bad to the Balloon
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Bigfoot aside ... we as magicians suffer from a stereotype created by the media and from our own brethren.

The media/TV always (99.99%) portrays the magician as either a bumbling in-adept fool or a pompous buffoon.

Examples: GOB on "Arrested Development", a magician on any sitcom for that matter, In the news if a guy gets out of a straightjacket who cares? now if the rope burns thru and he lands on his head THAT'S NEWS.

One of the few people to consistently put magicians in limelight was the late Johnny Carson.
Don Alan, Michael Ammar, Harry Anderson, Carl Ballentine, Harry Blackstone Jr., Walter Blaney, Johnathon Neal Brown, Lance Burton, Carazini, Dick Cavett, David Copperfield, Dean Dill, Joseph Gabriel, Uri Geller
Paul Gertner, Brian Gillis, Goldfinger & Dove, Albert Goshman, Jimmy Grippo, Johnny Hart, Pat Hazell, Doug Henning, Ricky Jay, Kreskin (more appearances than any other single guest), Harry Lorayne, Steve Martin, Chris Michaels, Scot Morris, Penn & Teller, James Randi, Randall Richmond, Marvyn Roy, Shimada, Michael Skinner, Johnny Thompson, Orson Welles, Mark Wilson, Amarillo Slim (gambler)

But of this list only a hand full are household names. WHY? Because the public don't like to see people who can change the laws of reality win. They want to see us fail. Same with sports, politics and men.

Sports, it is the crashes and the defeats that get play, not a good game played. Also in sports it isn't the good sports man we revere it is the bad boy ... can anyone say Daryl Strawberry?

Politics it is about who we hate, not who is great.

And when is the last time on a sitcom did father actually know best? Why are kids smarter than adults, and women are always smarter than men.

Back to the magicians. Look at our scoring system within the IBM and SAM. It amazes me how we can award people who don't entertain, but merely hit the posts. They get points for doing sleights. Aren't they supposed to be undetectable?

I was on a judging committee that they would not give a guy the award because they could figure out how he did something, in fact the modus operatus they thought he did was wrong and they claimed they saw him do it!!?? He won the prize but was not awarded the bigger one and I felt it was wrong. He was entertaining and that doesn't fit into a judges evaluation methodology.

Look at today's shows "America's Got Talent" or as I call it "America does Karaoke" Only one original magic act made past the finals, but there are how many singers? NOT one original song in the bunch. Okay except Butterscotch, but she doing remixes. In fact they had the magicians showdown between themselves. Not to mention last year Nathan got screwed!!!

My point..? I don't think a 14 year old does any better or worse for the art of magic than is already perceived by the public already. Just go and do good magic.
Mark Byrne
AKA Mark the Balloon Guy
As seen on the TODAY SHOW
www.balloonguy.net
Creator of Bad to the Balloon DVD series
Go to my store: http://tinyurl.com/Bad2theBalloon
Ted Danger
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Cory, due to my arrogance, I feel I must be the last and most recent poster on this thread. Now I'm in the cyber-limelight!!! You asked what we were doing at 14. I had a 300 paper route, which was a killer on Sundays. Getting up at 4:30 every morning sucked big time. I also sold firecrackers at school.
Congrats on the gig. My advice: Don't heed this advice, or any other on this list, if it does not suit your fancy. If everyone took the advice of this list there would be no variety. Cut your hair Doug Henning; Don't be rude to your audience, Amazing Jason; Leave the Kid's alone; Butterfly Man. Don't act like you're possessed by the devil; Max. Don't act like your having greatfulldead flashbacks, Sylvester; If you do magic, say you're a Magician, Uri.
As far as arrogance goes, a simple study of the greats show many of them, in the performance persona, played the arrogance card to the hilt, often. After all, a real magician is someone who does real magic. It kinda lends itself to arrogance.
As far as Johnny Carson being one of the greatest promoters of magic, I agree. I was dissapointed not to see my pal Frank Olivier on that super list. O.K. he's a juggler and magician. However you can view his dyno set on the tonight show with Johnny at http://www.funnyfrank.com

Please do remember how to get to Carnegie Hall.....and good luck
"One may say the eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility." Albert E.
patrick flanagan
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Jonathon,
Per usual you are missing the point, but that doesn't surprise me. You, me, and anyone else that is out there working makes the effort to overcome these obstacles each night we work at each table/group that we approach. The point is that we should be doing everything we can to try and eliminate these obstacles, rather than continuing to just overcome them. Supporting someone, and I don't care if they are 14, 34, or 84, who hasn't made the effort to prepare themselves is creating more obstacles. It is feeding that perception the public has about magic and magicians.
You say that you agree with customers that hate bad magicians. What do you think is the root cause of someone being a bad magician? I'm certain there are many reasons why someone could be labeled a bad magician. One of them, and possibly the biggest reason, is they didn't take the time or make the effort to prepare themselves to be successful in this job. That could run the gamut from not enough practice of sleights, routines, patter, etc. to not taking the time to understand the dynamics of the restaurant business to not studying the psychology of how the brain processes stimuli, which I feel is important in utilizing mis-driection. You say you hate bad magicians but you don't seem to want to get involved and do anything about it. And you call me lazy?
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-08 12:27, patrick flanagan wrote:
Jonathon,
Per usual you are missing the point, but that doesn't surprise me. You, me, and anyone else that is out there working makes the effort to overcome these obstacles each night we work at each table/group that we approach. The point is that we should be doing everything we can to try and eliminate these obstacles, rather than continuing to just overcome them. Supporting someone, and I don't care if they are 14, 34, or 84, who hasn't made the effort to prepare themselves is creating more obstacles. It is feeding that perception the public has about magic and magicians.
You say that you agree with customers that hate bad magicians. What do you think is the root cause of someone being a bad magician? I'm certain there are many reasons why someone could be labeled a bad magician. One of them, and possibly the biggest reason, is they didn't take the time or make the effort to prepare themselves to be successful in this job. That could run the gamut from not enough practice of sleights, routines, patter, etc. to not taking the time to understand the dynamics of the restaurant business to not studying the psychology of how the brain processes stimuli, which I feel is important in utilizing mis-driection. You say you hate bad magicians but you don't seem to want to get involved and do anything about it. And you call me lazy?


My point is that there is going to be bad people in any occupation. People hate dentists, lawyers, doctors, salesman, teachers, street performers, waiters the list goes on because people have met bad ones from all those occupations. Its a part of life. You are not going to stop people from being bad. Natural selection takes care of it for us. A bad performer is not going to last long. They won't have a long career. Everyone knows that to be good at anything you have to be "good". But many people simple don't know they are bad. Amercan idol shows us that. Telling these people doesn't change the way they see themselves. They think they are good. So as magicians we deal with this and so do all occupations. What is wrong is to think that you can change the world, change "life" just to make your job easier. That is not going to happen. What we can do as individuals is show the world what a good performer is that way they can spot the bad ones and avoid them.

Thus separating the wheat from the chaff.
kammagic
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Another thing:

There is a big difference between a bad performer and an unprepared performer. Cory does not sound like a bad performer. He is asking all the right questions. He wants to do a good job. According to his debut he did alright. The more he works the better he will become.

, Jonathan
Cory Landels
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Thank you Jonathan, I think that sums things up nicely.
manal
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Quote:
On 2007-08-07 00:50, Scott F. Guinn wrote:







When an experienced professional takes time out of his busy schedule to bother to respond to your post at all, it would behoove you to carefully consider his point, rather than to get defensive and say things like "I think I know that it would be better to perform to the restaurants standards rather than MagicSanta's" or "All of you who tried to bring me down with your posts, nice try... didn't work."








Busy schedule? Come on,some of the "busy pros" practicaly live at the Café. There are a few that post replies to nearly every topic even though it is rarely anything other than an opinion ( one of which everyone has) bordering on flaming ,as opposed to anything constructive or informative. One of these "busy pros" is well on his way to 2,000 posts in MUCH LESS THAN A YEAR. They either type very fast or have quite a bit of free time on their hands.


I realize Mr. Guinn, you are indeed a busy pro, you also make valuable contributions here at the Café ,while others merely have diariahha of the typing digits.
Life is too important to take seriously.

james@jamesmanalli.com

www.jamesmanalli.com
patrick flanagan
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Kamm,
I never alluded to Cory's skill level. For all I know, Cory may be able to deal thirds one-handed while doing coin rolls with his toes. Although, I'm not certain how you can assess Cory's skill level based on the questions he asked, but, then again, maybe you can. What is the big difference between a bad performer and an unprepared performer which you alluded. Because, I think an unprepared performer, regardless of their skill, is a bad performer, which helps to feed the perception.
Cory, so you know, this really isn't about you anymore. I, as stated previously, am happy for your success in landing the gig at Montanas. I hope you achieve all of your goals in magic. Again, as stated in previous post, you have asked some very good questions which shows you have the desire to learn more about this business. For a 14 year old, that is quite admirable. So this isn't about you as much as it is about theory and the ability to change perceptions.
Patrick
manal
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Arthur Buckley made out allright. It's my " Opinion " Cory may very well also.

Should we be smarmy and imply his first experience went well and his spectators were entertained because the audience was somehow "inferior". Were they entertained, happy, having fun? Did the employer find his service valuable? If so why begrudge Cory his accomplishment?

As far as how much he was paid there is another thread just for the purpose of posting what you are paid. You could visit and while you are there you could post what you are paid as well.
Life is too important to take seriously.

james@jamesmanalli.com

www.jamesmanalli.com
Dannydoyle
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Well as I said what he was paid is not relevant.

Really lets just stop the fighting, it takes away from the productive nature of the thread. It was kind of productive.

I personally am NOT going to get in it. I have no care either way.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
manal
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Quote:
On 2007-08-08 17:06, Dannydoyle wrote:
Well as I said what he was paid is not relevant.

Really lets just stop the fighting, it takes away from the productive nature of the thread. It was kind of productive.

I personally am NOT going to get in it. I have no care either way.

My comments were not directed towards you. I happend to enjoy your posts as they were of the "kinder , gentler" type Smile
My comments were addressing the overall tone of the entire Café as of late.
Life is too important to take seriously.

james@jamesmanalli.com

www.jamesmanalli.com
Jaz
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Congrats Cory.

You got your first restaurant gig.
Whether you took any advice given here don't matter as much as that you went out there and got the gig.

The learning and growing begins now. Smile
Best to ya,
MagicSanta
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Note, this kid came here and asked questions, no one tracked him down and forced him to be subjected to information, he asked for input. He got it, didn't like it, didn't want to follow it, got a job of some sort doing something or another, maybe, who knows, and now we have people acting like he was attacked. No one attacked him but the interesting thing is those defending him will end up doing him the worse harm in the long run.
Dannydoyle
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That has always been my position as well.

But the whole leading a horse to water thing I guess. I give up.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
SoCalPro
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I move that this topic be closed as we are just beating a dead horse. All in favor??
Magic_Steve
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You got my vote!
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