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Tom Cutts
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Yes, that was my point in pointing out the absolutes I felt you posted.

"You watch movies for example they all follow about a dozen or less processes." Some movie processes simply don't work for some people but do work for others, which is where the line "On the process level everyone is the same..." crosses me up on the way to what we agree on...

That being people assimilate information (process it) in different ways. In my framework if we want to open a certain door, we need to know which key will open that door for which people. Then I work all the different keys possible to open as many versions of that door as possible.
mindpunisher
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Yes but in any audience you won't do it for everybody. But you might be able to do it for the audience (most people attending).

having an understanding of the doors and sequence etc: will enable you to open as many as possible. Hopefully most (which is more than half).

that's where an understanding of process comes in.
Tom Cutts
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I now have a better understanding of your use of the word process to describe your structure.
mindpunisher
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I think most if not all people respond to the same process. Its the content that causes the biggest differences.

getting everyone happy with the content is another thing. But change the content stick to a structure and you get other types of people.

But again there are no absolutes these are just tools to do the best job.

Even then occasionally it can fall completely flat..
Jim-Callahan
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There are absolutes and to ignore that fact is folly for those in engaged in this art.

J ack

H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
ALEXANDRE
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Quote:
On 2007-08-10 16:45, Jim-Callahan wrote:

I have several tools I use (not offered on my DVD's but having to do with Group Organism Dynamics) that strip an entire audience/group down to primate/primitive level for an instant and in that instant you become the Alpha human in that environment.

It works if you are doing balloons, card tricks, or reading thoughts live or on TV or film.
(It is not for sale. I only mention this to avoid the PM's asking about it)

J ack

H.O.A-X


It's funny you should write this J ack, because I'm just about to put an eBook up with this description:

Strip an entire audience/group down to primate/primitive level for an instant and in that instant become the Alpha human in that environment!

Perform like J ack in the Thought Broadcast clip on his site used on high school kids to create the proper respect and interactive dynamic! http://www.JimClass.Com

It works if you are doing balloons, card tricks, or reading thoughts live or on TV or film!

Don't be fooled anymore, everyone is the same if you are hitting biologically hard wired directives!

For sale! (not cheap)

Coming Soon! http://www.eyesandminds.com/store2.htm



Is it some kind of telepathy???
Tom Cutts
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Mindpunisher,

What you call structure I believe I call content. There in lies the difficulty. My content is what some would call delivery, and I think of that as the content beause it is what gives the performance meaning and emotional engagement.
mesmer
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Genteleman.....this is a very good post indeed!
keep them coming.....
mindpunisher
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Tom content is the material effects jokes stories etc

Structure is how they are put together to create a certain effect in the minds of the audience.

You can change the content but keep the structure to have a similar effect on different audiences...

They are two completely different things. structure and process are higer level thinking. Content is the details..
Tom Cutts
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Yeah, I know that is your language. It's not mine. For me the content of a show is that which gives it meaning and emotional engagement. In my performance what gives it meaning is the delivery. The rest is the structure or framework on which the content is built.

Two people can perform the same "trick" and get entirely different reactions. In my language the content is what affects that reaction. Ergo the the thing which remains constant (the trick) becomes the rigid element (structure) on which different presentations (content) can be hung. One of the elements which is malleable is the process or steps which are adapted to include as many different methods of audiences' assimilations of the experience as possible. This is particularily adaptable specifically because people assimilate the experience in different ways in my experience.

Just different ways of looking at the same thing. If we toss out the nomenclature we have adopted, you and I agree on many levels.
mindpunisher
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Yes we do agree. For me the presentation is the whole completed thing. The structure is how its put togeher the content is the effects. Delivery would also be content Ie humouress serious etc.

You can have the same structure but use it many presentations. Not just mentalism. The only thing that changes is the content. Instead of effects you have information intended for your target audience.
Tom Cutts
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Some people believe there is a template and they construct their performances around that template. I disagree with that philosophy. I believe the material and the audience will tell you the structure if you listen and are knowledgeable on the subject. As content (your definition) changes, so may the structure (your definition), in my opinion.
CAROLINI
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Before presenting an effect I try to HONESTLY put myself in the place of the audience and try to determine how I would react to the effect. We cannot but be impressed with the mentality of the creators of many effects. This can deceive us into believing that the audience must likewise be impressed. Not so! I have seen magicians do things with cards and coins that I can't help but admire their skills. But I also admire jugglers and acrobats just as much. But admiration is not necessarily entertainment. We should always try to consider the entertainment value of our effects. And, we should only try to do effects that will entertain everyone in the audience. That is a challenge to make us worthy of the title ENTERTAINER.
chris_johnson_au
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Quote:
On 2007-08-10 17:04, mindpunisher wrote:
You watch movies for example they all follow about a dozen or less processes.

They are basically the same but use different characters and locations.

However they take the audience through the same sequence of emotions.

Watching a movie is being taken through a psychological and emotional process.

So is reading a novel

Or being pitched to by a sales person.


I'm still trying to understand what you're trying to say in terms of sales here (since I used to be in sales and a sales trainer).

If what you said were true, that means some people will end up with some products they don't need because they already have them at home. What about qualifying? What about the different buying personalities?

In a one-on-one situation, you probably would be able to have greater success by finding those buttons and moving accordingly through the presentation.

In a situation where you are performing for more than one person at a time, you will have a problem where you are going to have some personalities not receptive.

People aren't all made through the same mould.
Chris Johnson
0433 181 675
www.thementalist.com.au
mindpunisher
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Of course people are not made of the same mold that's why you need a process....

Process instructions allow all types of people to put their intepretation into things.

sales presentations are beyond this thread

Seriously its far to big a subject.
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