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mindpunisher
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Did you take the time to look at the google links?

the percentage of patients who die from medical treatment itself and not the illness is quite alarming.

Im am not in the medical field or science. Why would I be interested in what they prove?

Hypnotherapy (good therapy) is as much of an art and skill as it is anything else.

I really don't care what doctors say. My clients get better results with me in many cases. Of course those I can't help I don't intefere with.

But numerous times a client will come to me after being through the medical system first and having had some really negative experiences.

As for dismissing the third world? Where did I do that? I am saying these countries are uneducated and therefore die from ignorance rather than any therapy.
Lee Davies
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:42, mindpunisher wrote:
Also I can't be bother singling out any links anyone that wants to spend time finding out about fatalities due to medical treatment

http://www.google.com/search?q=statistic......;oe=utf8


My departed father was part of the trials 10 years ago... after years of medication to control the condition My departed father was part of the trials 10 years ago... after years of medication to control the condition. His G.P offered to put him forward for the trials and clinical tests.
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand...
Lee Davies
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:42, mindpunisher wrote:
Also I can't be bother singling out any links anyone that wants to spend time finding out about fatalities due to medical treatment

http://www.google.com/search?q=statistic......;oe=utf8


My departed father was part of the trials 10 years ago... after years of medication to control the condition My departed father was part of the trials 10 years ago... after years of medication to control the condition. His G.P offered to put him forward for the trials and clinical tests.


You don't need to feel so honoured that I searched the links for you… it wasn’t for you Smile You can sit back and relax… My apologies I didn't mean to bruise your ego on topics close to your heart
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand...
Virungan
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Thanks for posting the link MP but despite your claim that "Plus its easy to find info on the net that supports anything" absolutely nothing on the page full of links supports your conjecture that more people die as a result of medical treatment than from traditional medicine...

Let me again say that for this to be an accurate claim you'd need adjusted figures for populations on conventional vs. those on traditional, or alternatively equal sized groups of patients with the same condition receiving conventional medicine and traditional medicine, and no medicine as a control, and the results.

In a statistical sense, the case of your one cured NLP patient is a subjective claim and not a proof.

I'm not attacking you, just seeking the truth in your argument, which as your signature says, is the Final Frontier... no?

V
Smile When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...Smile
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:43, kinesis wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:31, mindpunisher wrote:
Plus its easy to find info on the net hat supports anything.


Exactly why critacal thinking and education and a desire to research things is essential in todays culture. Woo isn't harmless it'sdangerous and expensive and if used as an ALTERNATIVE (as opposed to comlimentary) medicine potentially fatal.


Yes research is important if you want to discover many of the motivations of "conventional accepted treatments".

You don't display critical thinking by being totally one sided. Plus these arguments are subsets for the main point. This show was made for profit by going down a well worn path for making easy money. An easy target cheap budget no creativity done to death format that pretends to be noble and doing us a service.

Its a cop out from the tv channels who just want easy shows to pull in revenue instead of making some decent tv.
Lee Davies
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:53, Lee Davies wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:42, mindpunisher wrote:
Also I can't be bother singling out any links anyone that wants to spend time finding out about fatalities due to medical treatment

http://www.google.com/search?q=statistic......;oe=utf8


My departed father was part of the trials 10 years ago... after years of medication to control the condition My departed father was part of the trials 10 years ago... after years of medication to control the condition. His G.P offered to put him forward for the trials and clinical tests.


You don't need to feel so honoured that I searched the links for you… it wasn’t for you Smile You can sit back and relax… My apologies I didn't mean to bruise your ego on topics close to your heart





Yes, I agree I can't type lol!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand...
Corona Smith
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Since this topic is mutating beyond all recognition, I'd like to add that only one author (to my knowledge) has turned down the Nobel prize for literature. He did so on the grounds that Nobel's fortune came from obliterating people in creative ways.

He is a great Amernican author too, one of my favourites infact.

So who was he?


Corona.
Energizer
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With respect to Mind Punisher - I agree that the show is probably just a way for C4 to make loadsamoney, but I disagree on the point that it only pretending to do a service.

This thread seems quite statistical ... and given the millions who will have watched the show, I think a large number(!?) will have been disconvinced of the efficacy of alternative therapies.

I think any TV show that promotes critical thinking, scientific thinking, rational thinking is of tremendous worth. Supertitious non-sense is still with us in a big way and constitutes a real and present danger. The more of these kinds of shows the better.

Olly
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Corona Smith
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 09:42, Corona Smith wrote:
Since this topic is mutating beyond all recognition, I'd like to add that only one author (to my knowledge) has turned down the Nobel prize for literature. He did so on the grounds that Nobel's fortune came from obliterating people in creative ways.

He is a great Amernican author too, one of my favourites infact.

So who was he?


Corona.


Actually Sarte also turned it down you idiot!
Energizer
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Dunno who that was Corona, but am mildy amused by the phrase 'obliterating people in creative ways'.

That phrase made me think - of the point I kind of made earlier - alright, I didn't make it, but it relates to it.

The point was people don't trust science because the findings are often so contradictory when it comes to more complex objects of analysis such as biological ones (as this thread illustrates). But also, people don't trust science because it can be used for bad, as well as good. Rather like magic and mentalism. And music.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Corona Smith
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I am mildly amused too sometimes.

So its this or that is it?

Corona.
kinesis
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 07:54, mindpunisher wrote:

Yes research is important if you want to discover many of the motivations of "conventional accepted treatments".

You don't display critical thinking by being totally one sided. Plus these arguments are subsets for the main point. This show was made for profit by going down a well worn path for making easy money. An easy target cheap budget no creativity done to death format that pretends to be noble and doing us a service.

Its a cop out from the tv channels who just want easy shows to pull in revenue instead of making some decent tv.


Conventional medicine may have an element of corruption for financial gain, but at least it's trialled, tested, required to meet certain standards before approval and it works.

Look and the millions of woo woo medications, devices, and treatments out there, they aren't tested, have no trials and sure don't work (apart from placebo) they are produced with nothing in else but for financial gain. Sadly they exploit the needs of desperate and ignorant (through no fault of their own) people of this world. These things exist through greed. People don't care who they rip off. People who offer these woo woo services and products are either very self-deluded or the lowest of the low.

If I was going to support a corrupt market it would be scientifically proven conventional medicine. Not psychics, not magnets, not crystals, not homeopathy and the list goes on....
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






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Corona Smith
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Quote:
On 2007-08-17 09:46, Corona Smith wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-17 09:42, Corona Smith wrote:
Since this topic is mutating beyond all recognition, I'd like to add that only one author (to my knowledge) has turned down the Nobel prize for literature. He did so on the grounds that Nobel's fortune came from obliterating people in creative ways.

He is a great Amernican author too, one of my favourites infact.

So who was he?


Corona.


Actually Sarte also turned it down you idiot!


Then there was that Russian one who turned it down too!

But that was politics...
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