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Oyama
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Portland, OR.
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I am looking for information on Psychological CARD Forces. I have many books and DVD's but they don't discuss this area. Could someone recommend a book or DVD that teaches this? I know that Derren Brown's book "Pure Effect" has some in it, but finding a copy of that is another story. Does his lecture DVD teach any? Any advice would be great. Thanks.
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
cougar261084
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You can buy the devil's picture book from derren's site.

psychological subleties, psychological subtleties 2 by banachek

as for pure effect:

http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/Pure_Effec......own.html
http://www.ellusionist.com/order/Pure-Ef......rown.php
http://www.magicbookshop.com/product_inf......_id=5715


I own this book and let me just say there are way better books out there.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=1406


for a really really good book on nlp (only the useable stuff and not the overhyped nlp let's me read everyone's thoughts, stuff) see:

http://www.hanklee.org/xcart/product.php?productid=8370

sleight of mind.

this book is awesome and gives you real workable info, pair that with banacheks psychological subtleties and you'll be a step closer to learning how to perform effects similar to mr browns.
Oyama
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Portland, OR.
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WOW! Thank you for that. I am going to have to pick up the lecture DVD soon. I clicked on the links for "Pure Effect" and they were all out of stock. I got excited for a second. I can't find a copy of Psychological Subtleties 1 either. I have Psychological Subleties 2. Where in that book does it talk about card forces? I will get it out and search for it. Thanks again for the information.
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
eSamuels
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Both Pure Effect and Banachek's P.S. (first one) are out of print, and fetching large dollars in Ebay, etc.
Malchat
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The Kingdom of Croiset and Wonder
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Quote:
On 2007-08-12 14:19, Oyama wrote:
I am looking for information on Psychological CARD Forces. I have many books and DVD's but they don't discuss this area. Could someone recommend a book or DVD that teaches this?


No, you just got to go out and do it. It's not something you're going to master theoretically.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
Oyama
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Malchat: I have discussed with you what I am trying to accomplish. The way you and I talked about doesn't seem like the right tool for the job. I know the tool was my idea and you were helping me out. Could you suggest another "tool"?
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
IAIN
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england
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Its explained on derren's picture book and lecture dvds, however, as malchat says (wierdly, I'm getting an image of him sitting at a table in london, eating not very much, but surrounded by food?! maybe in july?)...sorry, psychic flash there...

as malchat says, you have to actually go out and do it, and be prepared for the fail, and learn to pick the right sort of people...

so...methodology - dvds, but you cant do it right out of the box so to speak...
Looch
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Off by
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Quote:
On 2007-08-12 15:22, Malchat wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-12 14:19, Oyama wrote:
I am looking for information on Psychological CARD Forces. I have many books and DVD's but they don't discuss this area. Could someone recommend a book or DVD that teaches this?


No, you just got to go out and do it. It's not something you're going to master theoretically.


In a way what Malchat offers you here is better than what a book or DVD can teach you. You will be unique to other performers in that your natural actions and motions will differ to everyone else. Its in those acts of natural motion that you can suggest or influence certain elements of a playing card.

Doc Hilford teaches a verbal card force on his "real mind reading" video Although a lot of people havent had the success with it, it will give you an idea of how they can be accomplished.

You may also want to have a look at subtle voice forcing, also in Banacheks PS1
Oyama
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Thank you all for your thoughts on this subject. They have not fallin on deaf ears. I wonder if this is something I should come back to in the future. Sometimes our ideas surpass our abilities. This may be the case for me. Thanks again everyone.
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
Harry Lucas
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Prepare to fail and learn from it. If it doesn't work, try something different.

Sounds obvious, but the subject of psychological forces is so much based on judging the person and the situation, making gestures at the right time, etc... this can really be learned only by going out and doing it, as has been said before.

When you hit though, it gives you a feeling of immense satisfaction.
Mentalisten
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One way in which you may want to go out and try card forces is by having an out. If you do purchase Derren's picturebook DVD, you will learn a move he does in an effect calld 'Doublethink' whereby if the force/judgement fails, you can still make it appear as though you nailed it.

Just a thought... maybe until you find your 'way'.

Ross
'Welcome to the Jungle' - Axl Rose
mindshrink
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Delhi,India
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All ewffects don't show the same response when done by different performers.
I agree with Ross that you should have an OUT if the force does not work ...at least you have a an 'effect'.
Long back a magi on the phone tried the ...think of a number... with me and I had neither thought of 37 nor 39.He immediately proceeded with ..is the number less than 37?(using the double megative statement..u didn't think of a number less than 37 did you ?)...he went on with a cold reading spiel about.. intelligence and ambition.....and dissatisfaction...).I was impressed ...i had not heard about cold reading nor come across the number force at that time..Seven years down the line I do use"37 revisited "(Desert brainstorm DVD) or the above mentioned cold reading(Ian Rowland methods).
E.C. Valdemar
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Derren Brown's Devil's Picturebook. Check it out. Amazingly the Psychological Force that mentions using on Women as worked for me almost everytime. No Lie!

~Robert EC
Rob-ing you of your thoughts www.themindofrobert.weebly.com
cougar261084
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I have both pure effect and devils picturebook,


I would go for devils picture book it has everything pure effect has and more.

his force for the three of diamonds, I thought it was bullocks, I tried it and tried it and I failed and failed.

so I kinda threw it away, but after reading sleight of mind, and learning how to effectivly create rapport, this force has become really great.

I was a non believer but now I understand why they work, if you have good rapport people lower their guard and are way more receptive.

problem was they talk about achieving rapport in so many books and videos but none gave me any effective way of establishing rapport.

do a search on the Café and you'll see how much praise sleight of mind got.
Celloboy
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Also check out the Secret by Kenton
Pete
John C
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Eternal Order
I THINK therefore I wrote
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Quote:
On 2007-08-13 11:32, cougar261084 wrote:
I have both pure effect and devils picturebook,


I would go for devils picture book it has everything pure effect has and more.

his force for the three of diamonds, I thought it was bullocks, I tried it and tried it and I failed and failed.

so I kinda threw it away, but after reading sleight of mind, and learning how to effectivly create rapport, this force has become really great.

I was a non believer but now I understand why they work, if you have good rapport people lower their guard and are way more receptive.

problem was they talk about achieving rapport in so many books and videos but none gave me any effective way of establishing rapport.

do a search on the Café and you'll see how much praise sleight of mind got.


One way to establish rapport is by lowering YOUR gaurd (ego!). Which in turn relaxes the audience and gets them in the right mood. I do this in close-up situations by using 3x5 index cards and writing words and asking the spectator to read my thoughts. You know the 37 force, the carrots, the word no, think of a color, all that basic stuff. Now they think you are just having a good time. You've establised rapport!
NOW GO FOR THE KILL!!!

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Oyama
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Portland, OR.
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Thanks again for the ideas. I have thought about using equivoque for this but I have talked to others who have said that they would not use it for what I am trying to accomplish. If anyone wants to help and give suggestions more openly, I would not mind discussing this in a private message. Thanks again everyone!
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
LauraCalder
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I find instant psych forcing of a particular playing card quite tricky. One aspect that is hard to master is talking continuously while making the hand gestures so that the spectator does not have time to think of a different card than the one you're forcing.

When psych forcing a number card how many times do people feel it's neccessary to finger flash the relevant number for it to succeed?
Caspar
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Tacoma
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I don't know anything about Derren Brown's books, but in regards to Psychological Subtleties you can find some of the same material in addition to a quite a few other things in Encyclopdia of Card Tricks. Expert Card Technique also has a great psychological subtlety as well. The best part is that you could buy both of these Dover publications for considerably less money and they are readily available at a lot of bookstores.

Take care!
LLL
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Laura - I don't really finger flash, but more draw the number with my finger...
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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