The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » K.I.S.S. me or hit me! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next]
Dr Desmond Jones
View Profile
New user
44 Posts

Profile of Dr Desmond Jones
So I read all the rumors about this latest...

OK, let me back this up.

I perform for real world people. I do not have a camera crew of 5-6 guys. Nor do I have stooges. Now when I perform I want there to be a ground shattering effect that happens within the audience. In fact if they could help bring about this effect, I would be HAPPY!

Now everything I do takes practice. I have several apprenticeships behind me and I can perform a pass, a double, etc. better than most. In fact I had my ex wife blindfold me for years. ALL IN THE NAME OF ENTERTAINMENT! So I don't mind learning and executing moves and techniques as long as the effect is earth shattering.

My question to you is:
What happened to simple and direct plots and effects? Uri Geller was simple and direct. So are Lesley, Salem, and even Channing.

So I have to ask why on Buddhas good green earth do we (the Café) over inflate videos and ebooks that teach over inflated plots such as Diplopia where I cant even begin to care about the effect because I am lost in a series of moves which makes me just want to run off and cry!

Or how about Tea with Alice and Jack. Where the salesman has you believing that he is super psychic but in the video you see him walking like circus freak on dry wall stilts blindfolded. that's not psychic kids! that's circus sideshow b.s. Not even all that original. You want to see a good blindfold routine go get 10,000 us and hire Ross Johnson who uses standard methods to blindfold but entertains by appearing to be really psychic. The plots have a beginning middle and end. He interacts with his audience never reducing them to an equation and alpha maleness.

And excuse me for not noticing any worth while information from my $40 but J ack has brought us a complete course in rehashed card tricks! CARD TRICKS! How is this of use to anyone but a casual hobbyist. The video was shot in his home. Nice production values! Its a joke!

Next we go see J ack perform where he opens with the linking rings. Linking Rings? You don't have to be Craig Browning to wonder why a "paranormalist" is opening with the rings! Why do you give him all this credit? Wasn't he making balloon animals on his website for a long time? that's demeaning to mentalist and psychic entertainers everywhere. Why not dress up in clown make up and perform a blindfold routine or mental epic next.

What has happened to the state of mentalism?

Mentalism today... Hypnosis tomorrow...

Final Thoughts:

Keep the performing simple. Learn the basics and find what you want to do. If you claim to be a mentalist read minds. Tell me to think of a card and then have me flip over a card that you just put in my hand and have it be that card.

You want to be a paranormalist then teach me to be paranormal. Show stigmata. Show me mind control. Show me a ghost. Don't show me a card trick in your kitchen.

This has been a rant from your truly!
Viva la elitests!
And if you don't know who Ross Johnson or Ken Weber is then you aren't elite!
"You Lady, you call him Dr. Jones, --Short Round!"
DJM
View Profile
Inner circle
Israel
1681 Posts

Profile of DJM
Hear hear!
Drewmcadam
View Profile
Inner circle
Scotland
1234 Posts

Profile of Drewmcadam
Hey Doc,

I’m with you!

KISS is a formula that would keep us all on solid ground. Sometimes we get too caught up with convoluted methodology. Simple stuff lets us concentrate on the presentation, which is 90% of mentalism, without worrying about the intricate technology or convoluted mechanics. The participant thinks of something. You struggle to get it, and lo! You do!

It’s always interesting to see tyro mentalists set out, reading everything, performing a hundred different effects, getting caught up in the intricacies of the mechanics, arguing on internet forums, then bit-by-bit stripping everything right back to basics as they turn pro.

The Doc talks sense.

Drew
Dr Desmond Jones
View Profile
New user
44 Posts

Profile of Dr Desmond Jones
Thank you gentlemen.

I always thought we were supposed to be actors playing the parts of magicians playing the parts of psychics?

In other words:
We should use acting to strengthen our performance.

As Ken Weber states:
The stronger the magic the less patter is needed. BUT! It can be strengthen imho with dialogue and acting.

We are playing a role so lets go play it. Why mix messages with complicated moves and magic tricks? Create magic don't create an image of a guy doing an old magic trick that you saw your uncle do.

Magic is also in the details. The more details and thought that goes into something: The simpler the outcome as you have practiced for EVERY contingency!
"You Lady, you call him Dr. Jones, --Short Round!"
Sidney
View Profile
New user
85 Zombie Kills and their heads hung on
94 Posts

Profile of Sidney
I'm for any trick that gives Jack an excuse to perform with his shirt off.
I don't care if it's pom pom pole or hippy hoppy rabbits or paranormal card tricks.

Sid
Tony Iacoviello
View Profile
Eternal Order
13151 Posts

Profile of Tony Iacoviello
Quote:
On 2007-08-12 18:34, Dr Desmond Jones wrote:
...
I always thought we were supposed to be actors playing the parts of magicians playing the parts of psychics?

In other words:
We should use acting to strengthen our performance.

As Ken Weber states:
The stronger the magic the less patter is needed. BUT! It can be strengthen imho with dialogue and acting.

We are playing a role so lets go play it. Why mix messages with complicated moves and magic tricks? Create magic don't create an image of a guy doing an old magic trick that you saw your uncle do.

Some of us don't play, well maybe sometimes we do. When I'm on stage sometimes I'm a psychic playing the part of an actor playing the part of a psychic. This keeps the magicians and mentalist from attacking my show.

Magic folk are an omnivorous lot that feeds on their own but prefers the flavor of something different whenever possible.
Pete Legend
View Profile
Inner circle
Ireland
1366 Posts

Profile of Pete Legend
Hey Doc:

Everyone has a right to their opinion and fair points! In relation to Jim's work I think its great. I couldn't give a rats behind if he makes balloons or opens up his act using linking rings...I'm interested only in the information that I purchased from him.I enjoy his thinking and consider his pieces to be very entertaining and strong. I don't perform with cards though his idea's obviously as you know can be adapted for other things(not all but most). In regards to production values it's not why I buy magic related material...

I like your "Final Thoughts" Smile I'm working on it! Smile
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
18816 Posts

Profile of IAIN
Is that you Mark Lewis?

Canasta and Horwitz for me kept things simple, but kept things impossible and magical...they're some the best to learn from in my book...

with canasta especially, you neither have to be a magician nor a mentalist...

steer well clear of labels in my opinion..apart from the ones that say poison...
I've asked to be banned
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17675 Posts

Profile of Slim King
WOW...That's pretty strong stuff about Jack and Alice's Tea Party. I'm sure that you can get your money refunded if you think it's that bad....but by your description, I'm not sure you've seen the entire DVD or been involved on the Forum. A great deal of information is there and Not on the DVD...but you would know that if you owned it. If you don't, then you are blowing smoke.....and I guess unfortunately Drew too!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
coupcoupdaddy
View Profile
Inner circle
2466 Posts

Profile of coupcoupdaddy
I want to hear more about all those years your ex-wife blindfolded you.

--Isso Liwok
Foreign Correspondent
foreign correspondent, z and lt



inner being worker
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10599 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
K.I.S.S.

Killing in Silent Solitude
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Tony Iacoviello
View Profile
Eternal Order
13151 Posts

Profile of Tony Iacoviello
Quote:
On 2007-08-12 20:33, Slim King wrote:
WOW...That's pretty strong stuff about Jack and Alice's Tea Party. I'm sure that you can get your money refunded if you think it's that bad....but by your description, I'm not sure you've seen the entire DVD or been involved on the Forum. A great deal of information is there and Not on the DVD...but you would know that if you owned it. If you don't, then you are blowing smoke.....and I guess unfortunately Drew too!


Slim:

I read Drew's comments as towards the Keep It Simple philosophy, not Jim's work.
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17675 Posts

Profile of Slim King
Perhaps he'll clarify his statement? I see that about half the original post is about TEA so the "I'M WITH YOU!" might have confused me.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
chichi711
View Profile
Inner circle
5810 Posts

Profile of chichi711
Ya I am going to have to disagree here. I actually find it funny that you think Jims work isn't simple. Smile Why because you start and it could have 2 or 3 outcomes? You have to just roll with where the experience takes you? The method is beyond SIMPLE and leaves the entire thing up to acting. To me your whole entire post condradicts itself. You say keep is simple then say Jims DVD is not simple. You seemed confused on that in my opinion.

oh and P.S. I love the moto of KISS
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17675 Posts

Profile of Slim King
For the mundane...KISS is fine for the S people. But the greatest things in life are NOT simple. The most fantastic things are complicated. The most amazing things that I have seen and performed are extremely tedious and time consuming. Perhaps the everyday concepts are easy but many things deserve lots of work and effort. Blood, Sweat and Tears. Those adept at it may make it LOOK simple, but this is not the case. I guess I don't agree with those who call themselves THE ELITE.
Time will tell Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
mindshrink
View Profile
Special user
Delhi,India
915 Posts

Profile of mindshrink
I havent heard about Johnson or Weber.
It is absolutely necessary(and I agree with u) to keep it simple.I have heard about some of the effects but do not know much about them (and not bothered to find out either) for the simple reason.. they are expensive by my standards(check out $ and Indian currency rates).
It is necessary to concentrate on the presentation and that's possible when the technique is simple!
I am with you on this Doc.
burst
View Profile
Veteran user
Memphis, TN
308 Posts

Profile of burst
While I am a firm believer in the keep it simple philosophy, I don't see how Jim's work goes against this. The blindfold stilt bit was a publicity stunt. Key word is stunt. It's not an act in the traditional sense of the word. It doesn't need a beginning, middle and end. And if you put some thought into it, it still does. The fact that he was able to build tension while doing a blindfold bit should be a lesson to you. The only other time I've the use of a blindfold and emotional involvement was done by Derren Brown, his team, and his access to a lot of money to make it happen. Jim did it with a chunk of change. Another lesson.

As far as his effects and presentations, if you think they are complicated and/or convoluted, then that is your opinion and I won't bother trying to change it.

Mentalist either like card tricks or they don't. I love them and that's why I use them. Maybe it's because I got into magic with cards, maybe it's because, if performed properly, they impact my audience extremely well. But it's all up to the performer.

I've heard of a particular mentalist opening up his act with the linking rings, but it wasn't Jim. From my conversation with Jim, and I could be wrong with this, but I don't think he would ever be caught doing this. It's just not part of the experience that he would want to create at a show of his. I don't know where you've seen him perform this, it's not in either of his DVD projects.

Which brings me to production values. The image is good and he is easily heard. I don't care where it is filmed. If you have ever done any type of film project you would know that it can be very complicated to do it elsewhere, and costly. He's selling them for about 80 dollars (I wish I got it for 40, what a deal you got!), he obviously wouldn't make his money back if he were to make the project large scale.

Keep it simple is for the perspective of the audience, not the performer. Diplopia, to keep with your references, does require quite of bit of effort for the performer to pull off effectively, but in the view of the audience everything is simple and easily understood. I simply do not get how the plot of Diplopia is overly inflated at all.

It's probably the closest thing to the card trick you say you want to see/learn, but with the added kick that they got to read your mind. Jim's version of card stab, to me, meets your requirements even more. With that now in mind, I really don't understand why you don't like it.

I know the names you mention, but I'm not elite at all, nor do I ever care to be.

/paul.f
Jerome Finley
View Profile
V.I.P.
SLC
3419 Posts

Profile of Jerome Finley
Quote:
On 2007-08-12 18:21, Dr Desmond Jones wrote:
So I read all the rumors about this latest...

OK, let me back this up.

I perform for real world people. I do not have a camera crew of 5-6 guys. Nor do I have stooges. Now when I perform I want there to be a ground shattering effect that happens within the audience. In fact if they could help bring about this effect, I would be HAPPY!

Now everything I do takes practice. I have several apprenticeships behind me and I can perform a pass, a double, etc. better than most. In fact I had my ex wife blindfold me for years. ALL IN THE NAME OF ENTERTAINMENT! So I don't mind learning and executing moves and techniques as long as the effect is earth shattering.

My question to you is:
What happened to simple and direct plots and effects? Uri Geller was simple and direct. So are Lesley, Salem, and even Channing.

So I have to ask why on Buddhas good green earth do we (the Café) over inflate videos and ebooks that teach over inflated plots such as Diplopia where I cant even begin to care about the effect because I am lost in a series of moves which makes me just want to run off and cry!

Or how about Tea with Alice and Jack. Where the salesman has you believing that he is super psychic but in the video you see him walking like circus freak on dry wall stilts blindfolded. that's not psychic kids! that's circus sideshow b.s. Not even all that original. You want to see a good blindfold routine go get 10,000 us and hire Ross Johnson who uses standard methods to blindfold but entertains by appearing to be really psychic. The plots have a beginning middle and end. He interacts with his audience never reducing them to an equation and alpha maleness.

And excuse me for not noticing any worth while information from my $40 but J ack has brought us a complete course in rehashed card tricks! CARD TRICKS! How is this of use to anyone but a casual hobbyist. The video was shot in his home. Nice production values! Its a joke!

Next we go see J ack perform where he opens with the linking rings. Linking Rings? You don't have to be Craig Browning to wonder why a "paranormalist" is opening with the rings! Why do you give him all this credit? Wasn't he making balloon animals on his website for a long time? that's demeaning to mentalist and psychic entertainers everywhere. Why not dress up in clown make up and perform a blindfold routine or mental epic next.

What has happened to the state of mentalism?

Mentalism today... Hypnosis tomorrow...

Final Thoughts:

Keep the performing simple. Learn the basics and find what you want to do. If you claim to be a mentalist read minds. Tell me to think of a card and then have me flip over a card that you just put in my hand and have it be that card.

You want to be a paranormalist then teach me to be paranormal. Show stigmata. Show me mind control. Show me a ghost. Don't show me a card trick in your kitchen.

This has been a rant from your truly!
Viva la elitests!
And if you don't know who Ross Johnson or Ken Weber is then you aren't elite!


There are so many flaws in this post, it is hard to know where to begin . . .

I'll start by asking who you are Dr. so and so Smile

I'll agree with keeping things simple, sure. BUT, "Diplopia" a series of moves??? Sightless Vision NOT paranormal? What planet are you from???

I'm glad everything you do takes practice, doesn't most (if not ALL) of it? I would hope so! Also, I guess you'll never know if your pass is better than mine, because you won't SEE mine Smile I'd like you to justify/prove the statement that your card technique is better than most . . . how does one back up such a claim?

Also, I'm not too sure that knowing who Ross Johnson and Ken Weber is makes one elite. Based on your post, it obviously does not. I've not heard of Johnson before, but Weber's book is good. If YOU understood the book, perhaps you would understand Jim's Linking Rings. (?) And that's IF he does use them, which I don't know . . .

If you do happen to own Tea (doubtful, probably borrowed it) and wish to part with it, go right ahead and PM me.

Regards,
Jerome.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
Tony Iacoviello
View Profile
Eternal Order
13151 Posts

Profile of Tony Iacoviello
Jerome

Do you really want to engage in arguments with ghosts? Hint: Smile
Jerome Finley
View Profile
V.I.P.
SLC
3419 Posts

Profile of Jerome Finley
Tony,

Gotcha!
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » K.I.S.S. me or hit me! (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL