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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » K.I.S.S. me or hit me! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ElliottB
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I'm confused, but what else is new?
Slim King
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G.H.O.S.T...... What the....? An Elite ghost....a ghostly elitist? I too am confused Smile Again.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Tony Iacoviello
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Slim

The guy created his account on August 10th, his first post was an unsolicited flame on Jim. This has continued. He has also complained that he does not like the Tea DVD. There are only 2 places the link for Tea was located, this and one other forum. Most members there are members here, or are not for a few reasons.

The person misusing Desmond Jones' name has another name that he uses in the magic forums. One has to wonder why he did not use that name when he began his flames? Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but why hide under someone else’s name to post it.

(Desmond Jones is the much respected former head of the Desmond School of Mime in London and is one of the foremost authorities on the art.)

Posting in this fashion, he is a ghost in the machine, and can vanish and reappear under his other identity.
espmagic
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Doc -

To address your first comments: yes, those magicians who like to buy "stuff" need much feeding.The good news is that this attitude means that they will be preoccupied looking for "newer" methods to your effects, and you will fool them. The bad news is that you may be bored at your local magician/hobbyist meeting, where everyone is showing how well they can ********** with their new trick/method.

As to J ack/J im, I think he's a good performer, and a good salesman. He has an interesting twist on "old" or "common" themes, which should make us think a bit (especially if you are selling to the magician/hobbyist). And, truth be told, our measure of success is to be working, no? (Right, Drew?). So, if he is working...


Lee
Slim King
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I see said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw (My Mom always says that Smile )
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
the Sponge
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I've always heard/said: "'I see', said the blind man to his deaf wife."

s
Andini
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I agree in a combined point made by the Doc and Jerome. I have always been a firm believer in simplicity in magic (and Mentalism). Too often do I see tricks written up that are outrageously convoluted and would confuse a spectator every time. And while the Doc's post went on to bash some of our own, his points are valid. While misinformed and slightly delusional, he was striving to make us know what we are and what we're trying to do. If you want to be an all-around entertainer chap, then do your myriad magic tricks. But if you want people to see you as a psychic, a paranormalist, a psychological illusionist, a fraudulent spiritualist...stick to that character! When I saw Jim's video of the balloons, it just didn't feel right. And I don't doubt that it's entertaining, but when you're trying to sell the image of a paranormalist, I just don't know if balloons are going to do that for you. I'm all for comic relief, but if your character's dark and your material's dark, then you might want to opt for more dark humor...not Happy the Clown's Balloon Bag of Fun.

So, Mr. Dr. Desmond, (if you're still here), I agree with your overall point, and I think it's worth other readers taking the time to understand the big picture.
ALEXANDRE
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In my opinion it matters not how difficult or simple an effect is, do your job and entertain! If that's done, who cares how hard it was for you to pull it off. You can "act" either way. If you're not lazy.

Besides, memorizing might be hard for some and easy for others, among other things.

Cards in mentalism? I absolutely love them, and I don't use them as "playing cards" but as convenient ways to do my various "psychic" and "paranormal" demonstrations. People love it. In fact, after my show later this year, I'm thinking of doing a mentalism show featuring just cards, videotaping the performance, reactions, etc, then giving the dvd away or posting it in public so people will stop once and for all with this nonsense about not using cards in mentalism.

J ack? The more people think he sucks and refuse to use his work, the happier I am.
burst
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After a little bit of time surfing through Jim's site, I found the balloon video.

I think it's great. Everyone involved seemed extremely entertained. And it made sense for the atmosphere. I talked to Docc Hilford a couple years ago, I know he does/did a balloon act at times as well.

In regard to what I said about the experience Jim wants to create. . . goes to show how little I know. Just more proof how I'm not elite, I guess.

/paul.f
Looch
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Anyone who has heard of me knows I'm all for Simple & Direct plots and mechanics. For some of my up to date material I have tried to stick to this ideal but at times it can be difficult. I'm working on a routine at the moment that in terms of preparation is a one off nightmare but in performance I've tried to keep it as simple as possible for the performer.

I've never seen any of J ack or Jim's DVD's so cannot comment, but the vast majority of people here seem to like them so that surely says something?
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
Malchat
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Simplicity takes mastery. Mastery only comes from studying complexity.

"At first I thought a punch was just a punch, then I realised a punch is not just a punch, now I know a punch is just a punch." - Bruce Lee

"Can a beginner do magic in the simple way that long experience teaches? Ironically, doing magic the simple way is actually very hard." - Tommy Wonder

By the way, Ted Lesley performed the exact same plot as Paul Vigil's 'Diplopia.' Whatever the method, the audience understands the miracle just fine.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
Looch
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Great quotes malchat
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
IAIN
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That's rather zen buddhist of you malchat...very nice...

do all as if doing nothing...
I've asked to be banned
Jim-Callahan
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Let me say I think many here confuse effect with presentation.
The effect is not the presentation.

Effect is the simple part it is the ‘KISS’, but I like to do more than just KISS.
(That’s why Chicks dig me.)

I am a Paranormalist, not just a Magician or Mind reader, Balloon guy, Numerologist, Musician, Paranormal Researcher, Medium, Composer, Film Maker, Etc.

No reason to conform to what another person thinks my show and or presentations should be for the simple reason that what I do works very well for me.

In my opinion K.I.S.S. is one of the worst ideas ever applied to this art.
(Or I should clarify the misapplication of the principal)
It is in large part responsible for this field spiraling down to the level it is now.
Of course in many peoples opinion it is good to have that lower playing field then one not need be concerned with scripting, acting, subtext, story line, character development.
All of the tuff stuff that makes compelling and believable theater and or reality.

And yes even “BLIND QUEST’ the blindfold walk has all of that!
(We can discuss that but do not see no reason to.)

But why do so many like the bar at the low level it is now?
Well because any guy or gal that can pick up a mass marketed DVD can go out and become a mentalist just like he became a magician.

I deplore seeing a performer walk right out tell some one to think of a number and gosh miracle of miracles it is written on a little folded scrap of paper.
Stop the clocks and call it a day because it just does not get any better than that.

And admit it many here do think it is over the top high theatrical production to open their act with Bank Night.
I would hang myself in a closet before I would do that.

The balloon presentation I do is placed right before my heaviest presentations.
(I will not explain why because I see no reason to.)

The linking rings I open with at corporate events is to set applause cues and to set the method of delivering autobiographical information.
If you don’t know what that is all about it makes no difference.

My two DVD’s offer new applications and advancements in the field.
However I do understand one must be of a certain level of development in this art to understand and appreciate the content.

I would say almost all of those who have purchased these works are performers of the pro or semi-pro level.

The first poster appears to not have understood over fifty percent of the information on the DVD. But he can do a good pass and double lift I see and the leads me to believe he should possibly be purchasing DVD’s from L&L and not my material.

Strange he would be hiding behind a false name here.

Well anyway I have 10 copies left (And those on the forum if they do not have the first one will be able to purchase SOMETHING for a short time)

I have added the warning from the advertisement from my products to the bottom of this post as an explanation of why the first poster might be having a hard time understanding the material and the responses to it.
(Just because you purchase dance shoes does not make you a dancer when you show up at dance class the first day.)


J ack

H.O.A-X

*From advertisment page*
This DVD will be my final instructional DVD for those pursuing the art of mentalism performance. I believe that between the two discs one has at their disposal the tools I use to create my presentations and to augment and elevate their own work.
Please note that like the SOMETHING DVD this DVD is not intended for magicians or those presenting mental magic.

Click here to view attached image.
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
CAROLINI
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To paraphrase what a wise man once said, " a good performer can tell his audience to go to Hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip". If I have never learned anything else in my 77 years I definitely learned to K.I.S.S..
Carlos the Great
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Quote:
Let me say I think many here confuse effect with presentation.
The effect is not the presentation.


J ack,

Those were almost the EXACT same words I was going to type (until I saw you type them). So, since you read my mind and typed out what I wanted to say BEFORE I said it (guess you really are a paranormalist, see everybody, PROOF!), I will discuss something related.

The original poster, who I would love to hear from again, made a statement saying "a series of moves which makes me just want to run off and cry".

Well, run off and cry then but, when you do it, please remember that the thing that the audience remembers aren't all the moves you do to do the effect, it is the effect AS PRESENTED that they remember. Something can be insanely complicated to perform but can come off as very direct.

Next, I am actually going to take issue with the KISS approach. I won't go into too much detail because I truly feel everybody should buy Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz and read it for themselves but:

there is a difference between simplicity and clarity. A trick can be simple but unclear but it can also be clear without being simple. Simplicity is not a goal unto itself, whether or not their are cute little acronyms that you can use.

Personally, I don't use anything from J ack's DVDs as he does them, but I have started using the ideas and principles and I am MORE than satisfied with them. I will say that they do take work to integrate smoothly into your own routines, so maybe that is the problem people have with them, I really don't know.

-C
Cognite tute
Slim King
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Twisting a transative paradox while remembering seating positions plus separating all mathematical equations SIMULANEOUSLY for six people ( And you are 3,000 miles away) is not SIMPLE...But it works Smile
KISS is not always the way.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
IAIN
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The journey may be one short step or a million miles, its what you learn on the way that's important...
I've asked to be banned
Carlos the Great
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Base pair for base pair,
lambda is far smarter
than you or I...


OMG, lol
Cognite tute
Tony Iacoviello
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I am always striving to simplify both methodology and effect. My goal is to make the effect simple and direct enough so that the audience understands what happens, but no simpler.

As far as method goes, I want it simple as possible without sacrificing effectiveness and cleanliness.


Tony
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