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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » K.I.S.S. me or hit me! (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Carlos the Great
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Totally agree with you, Tony. If the audience understands what is happening, then the effect is clear. The actual simplicity is irrelevant.

I completely agree with your thoughts on method as well. I will say that there are some elements of my routine that are not "as simple as possible" because of inherent trade-offs in terms of the end result but they are as simple as I can make them while staying true to the effect I want to perform.

-C
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Dr Desmond Jones
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James, come now. You try and pull the wool over the eyes of these chaps. You claim to be a paranormalist and have this mystique.

All I am saying is that for some one much loved by this community and touted to be such a grandiose mentalist/paranormalist: I expected to see more paranormal not card tricks. Sorry for making the observation, actually no I'm not. LINKING RINGS in mentalism? Come on. If that's the best you have. And nice blindfoil use.

Keep it simple was meant to question everything you do. NEVER accept advice without questioning who's giving it. Now I have to ask what is your personae. Mixing up linking rings and balloons with one that is a paranormalist shoots credibility in the arse. Now that isn't saying that you may not make some nice money being a sculptor, however I question the artistic and community moxie you have when this is whats going on.

But that's getting personal, and I am sorry. Instead lets get to the DVD's. Card Tricks? Come now. They wern't even interesting. Slim did you pay for your copy? If not: your opinions null in this debate. If one wants to keep it simple and be a mentalist and sell products to mentalists then sell us mind reading not card tricks. I read all the hype as all of you did and fell for it. That infernal egress thing.

I learned something: If you want to know how much work a person gets and how credible he is, google his name and see how much of "corporate shows" they actually do.
"You Lady, you call him Dr. Jones, --Short Round!"
Carlos the Great
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Quote:
On 2007-08-13 14:11, Dr Desmond Jones wrote:
...

I learned something: If you want to know how much work a person gets and how credible he is, google his name and see how much of "corporate shows" they actually do.


Really? Are you sure? I feel, as does anybody I have ever met who needs reliable information, that a simple google search is NOT truly useful. But that is really neither here nor there, you seem to have your sights set on a particular person and that person's set of products. In other words, you seem (to me) to be dressing up a personal grudge as an actual discussion. Shame on you!

Your topic was not the relevance of linking rings to mentalism, lest we forget what you actually started off saying. Same thing for card tricks. Pick a topic and let us have an actual discussion.

-Carlos
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Dr Desmond Jones
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This has degraded into personal attacks to some degree. It has lost my original purpose.

I guess I cant get people to think: if I bash one of their heros videos.

The card warmth in Jims set is good but has been played before by hypnotists for years as animal magnetism. Why use a playing card? It weakens it. You look like a kids birthday clown. Use a version of PK touch or similar. The drawing dupe just didn't fit my performances and do we need yet more blindfold advice?

Tony Eye, how many of these effects do you use? Honestly.

Best post goes to the: Shirtless Jim comment.

CAN WE LOCK THIS?
"You Lady, you call him Dr. Jones, --Short Round!"
Jerome Finley
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Dr. Desmond,

What a joke! I've also used the Linking Rings to open my mentalism shows . . . I'm re-working things a bit now, but the routine itself is audience tested and steadfast. Good enough for Dunninger, but not for you? That's fine, but let's not play like the old greats did not also utilize them at some point, many did.

Also, Google to find out what corporate shows one does??? What if we are not playing to the corporate market? That is not a viable method to learn anything if the person in question is not geared towards this field.

I'm interested to know what exactly you are getting at. At this point, I would rather hit you.

-J.
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Carlos the Great
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Dr. Desmond,
Um, it started with a theoretically specific topic (KISS) which you never, in my mind, actually discussed except as a thin premise to comment on somebody else's (somebody who PERFORMS) routine.

I am all up for an actual discussion of the type you purported to want as well, and am still waiting. As I said, pick a topic and let us actually have a discussion.

That is, of course, assuming you wanted a topic and not to rant. I am thinking the latter is actually true.
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burst
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Quote:
On 2007-08-13 14:28, Dr Desmond Jones wrote:
This has degraded into personal attacks to some degree. It has lost my original purpose.

I guess I cant get people to think: if I bash one of their heros videos.


Personally, I am very pleased that none here are being childish and hypocritical. It says a lot.

/paul.f
Tony Iacoviello
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Quote:
On 2007-08-13 14:28, Dr Desmond Jones wrote:

Tony Eye, how many of these effects do you use? Honestly.




Sure, I don't use any of Jim's effects. (Then again, I prefer not to do anyone else's material.) But I do like the way he thinks, and there are some ideas that I've ben exploring.

Tony
Virungan
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Koran used to open with the linking rings... I believe he knew a thing or three about mentalism...

He did keep his shirt on though Smile
Smile When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth...Smile
Dr Spektor
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Dr Desmond,

The thread didn't degrade into personal attacks - it started as such - i.e. you on Jim's J ack's DVDs - i.e. moving from KISS to demoing that JJ's effects not only break the rule...but also that he has mostly "card tricks"... and that you had certain emotional reactions to the whole thing - and something about JJ's status on the MC . Although the topic of KISS is a good thing to discuss, if you look how you went on to choose the DVDs and the way you described them, one can take them as personal attacks on J ack... and no, I will not debate it - if you can't see it, I don't want to bother. If you really wanted to focus on the merits or demerits of the DVD, post it in the DVD review section... or the tea thread that is already in existence.

Also, the way you refer to card "tricks" make it sound like they are the equivalent of a fart joke.... not very nice to our fellow card magicians. I think they refer to their card effects as CARD EFFECTS.... just like how we don't call our material Mentalism Tricks... but in the end, who cares so long as we try to have mutual respect for each other?

Next, the debate of cards vs. no cards for mentalism is long and unending. There is a difference between a magic, mental magic and mentalism style of presentation (maybe)... but many card effects can be used for mentalism with the right presentation...IMHO... and that opinion is not a lone one. There is the camp that cards can never be used as it weakens the performance. I contend that those who hold to NEVER concepts may be more of a menace to creativity than those who try to combine things. When I hear someone say "the real work" and pontificate, I just wonder how he/she or anyone can claim there is one "real" "true" way to do anything.

Now back to the spirit: K.I.S.S. is a good concept - as they say... ornate objects are less expensive than the equivalent pure plain ones most times because it takes much more craftsmanship to produce a flawless ladel than one with etchings etc that can hide flaws. Confusion is not magic (or mentalism).

Dr S

(P.S. This is not me defending Jim/Jack or his DVDs (which I bought) but pointing out that there are ways to discuss things in a more friendly manner and getting the points across...IMHO)
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
RLFrame
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The method might be a complicated engineering marvel, but to an audience, the lady just floated up in mid air. Which is why I thought the the motto was, "Keep It LOOKING Laughingly Simple" to an audience. Isn't that why people say a great effect "K.I.L.L.S. ???
Carlos the Great
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Nice analogy, Dr S. Nice acronym, RLFrame.
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Slim King
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To answer the Docc's question, I pay for all the DVD's or effects that I publically comment on ( I have QUESTIONED a few things I haven't purchased). Everyone here knows that. So the answer is YES, I did payed for the DVD...Full Price..AND I used Thought Broadcast on the Radio. It plays stronger than ANYTHING that I've heard of you doing Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
ALEXANDRE
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It really is all a matter of taste, if this guy doesn't like Jim's material, to hell with him. Like I said earlier, the more people think Jim sucks and refuse to grow with his thinking, the happier I am.

Apart from that, Jim couldn't get better advertising for his material if he purchased ten ads here in the Café. Perhaps we are all being fooled and this Dr. is actually a friend of Jim's? Or sneakier still, J ack's.
Slim King
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That's why we call it ILLUSION. Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Oyama
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ALEXANDRE: Your idea to do a mentalism show with nothing but cards would be awesome! I love cards and mentalism, why not combine to two. I would buy that DVD. Just another opinion.
"it's better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb."
Jim-Callahan
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Mick Ayres, has two ebooks using just cards for a complete mental show that he tested on the job for Disney.

J ack
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Carlos the Great
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The links to the threads on these two ebooks are below:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=159

and

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......59&0


In a perfect world, nobody else would ever buy this so those of us who have it can lord it over you plebians forever. However, I have always felt we need to support those that share their ideas (plus, I want the third book in the Act series to come out already, lol).

Mick's stuff is pretty darn commercial, I routinely floor people with the first effect in the first book. And, for the record, I bought it, have never met Mick in person, am not a Mick fan boy, and am not being controlled by the Paranormalist.

But, as always, don't take anything for granted, read the reviews yourselves, then run to buy this stuff.

Man, that sounds like a commercial.

-J a... er, I mean Carlos
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ALEXANDRE
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Quote:
On 2007-08-15 19:07, Carlos the Great wrote:
... and am not being controlled by the Paranormalist.


How do you know? How does anyone know???!!
Arnon
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Dear Dr. Jones:

I have had my wars with Jim/J ack, but what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong. And your attacks on his DVDs are wrong, in my opinion.

Quote:
On 2007-08-12 18:21, Dr Desmond Jones wrote:
***
…Now when I perform I want there to be a ground shattering effect that happens within the audience. In fact if they could help bring about this effect, I would be HAPPY!


Dr. Jones, perhaps you failed to comprehend the essence of Jim/J ack's DVDs.

For example, "Tower of Thought" on "Tea" CAN create "a ground shattering effect that happens within the audience," BUT you need the complex and subtle presentational skills necessary to create that effect on the audience. It requires a slew of skills and the execution of psychological and physical subtleties applied throughout the effect and with dynamic interaction with one's audience, in order to create the desired illusion and maximize its impact on the audience. It is a COMPLICATED undertaking, requiring much rehearsal and then performance experience, to realize the full potential of "Tower of Thought."

Yet, the illusion itself is SIMPLE in its impact on the audience, but disorienting to their belief in their grasp of reality that they thought they had firmly had all along.

Also, "Tower of Thought" was demonstrated using playing cards AS OBJECTS (did you really LISTEN to Jim/J ack's explanations?). I, for one, look forward to using photographs instead.

As far as your other attacks on Jim/J ack, while I disagree with his choice of repertoire and sincerely believe that it is bad for the future of his career, it is up to him to choose his material. My purpose is only to LEARN from him what I can and WHAT I WANT, and LEAVE THE REST.

The only real gripe I have ever had with him was over ethics - the requirement of a strong disclaimer when performing for minors; misrepresenting facts on this forum when he thought he could get away with them; and general intellectual dishonesty. Also, the fact that he has many blindly devoted followers on the Café who are willing to run interference and "take a bullet" for him, irks me to no end. (Where's the spider-eater?)

However, I urge you to please watch the DVD(s) again, and reconsider them in the light of what I've posted.

Thanks,
Arnon
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