|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts 
|
Brad,
not sure if a breather or crimp is classified as gimmick. But again that is a matter of definition. What is a gimmick? Andy
Cards never lie
|
|||||||||
|
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-08-18 19:49, Jaz wrote: Thank you for clarifying this. As English is your language, I accept this explanation of 'purist'. There are categories which rely mainly on sleight of hands. There are categories which mainly rely on gimmicks. There are category which rely on both. At least, thinking "sleight of hands magic is where real art lies" seems to be a biased thinking. Hideo Kato |
|||||||||
Johnny Butterfield Veteran user 378 Posts
|
Quote:
1) What is your philosophical defense for the notion that a trick should not be revealed. Should we not be curious? The secret impresses nobody. Is it impressive to hear that some guy hid three coins in some special grip, or that he made the coins vanish? Further, magic is effect without cause, without any possible cause but magic. The secret not only admits that there is a reasonable cause, but details the cause exactly, and changes it it the mind of the spectator from "magic" to something as mundane as holding the coins a certain way. Quote:
2) What is wrong with Criss Angel? Is he not a great illusionist? He's okay. I have nothing against him. Quote:
3) What is wrong with gimmicks? Can't invention of new and fancier and ever more expensive gimmicks a valuable pass time? The only thing that should matter is the effect, and whatever method works is fine with me. Gaffs work great. Sleights work great. It all centers on the effect, and anything else is missing the mark. Who cares (besides magicians, but they aren't the audience) if you used a gaff instead of a sleight? As long as the effect is strong, it doesn't matter, IMHO.
The current economic crisis is due to all the coins I've vanished.
The poster formerly known as Fman111. |
|||||||||
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-08-19 00:06, Brad Burt wrote: Hi Brad, I don't know any real purists as I define a magic purist. Like you, I had a purist attitude and eventually saw the benefits of gimmicks and gaffs and use them in moderation. Good point. I don't totally agree that a crimped card can be considered a gaff. Nor do I feel that an extra coin is anti-purist. Hideo posted: Quote:
There are categories which rely mainly on sleight of hands. There are categories which mainly rely on gimmicks. There are category which rely on both. At least, thinking "sleight of hands magic is where real art lies" seems to be a biased thinking. Very true. Andy asks: Quote:
What is a gimmick? Man! I can see a lot of word play rising from this. heheh. To me a gimmick contains something most often unseen and often functional properties. By functional I mean it may have mechanical, electrical, magnetic properties, etc. TT, ITR, holdouts, pulls, dye tube, etc. A gaff on the other hand is non-mechanical and is seen to be something that it's not. C/S coin, two sided cards, linked finger rings,etc. Then there are items like Cig. thru Quarter, fire wallet may be defined as gaffs but are gimmicked as defined above. Maybe they're...  .... 'gafmicks'? 
Confusing, isn't it? 
There's a short discussion on gaff vs gimmick here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......;start=0 Best to ya, |
|||||||||
|
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
|
The ultimate goal of the secrecy of magic is to prevent anyone who might enjoy not knowing, from knowing. Ultimately anyone with the intent and desire to learn magic's mechanics can do so, no one could ever stop them. The preach the secrecy in attempt to keep those with the knowledge from ruining the entertainment of those without the knowledge. This knowledge should only come to those who truly seek it, with an understanding of the price they will pay for it. With that in mind, we wish all who do seek it, to first understand that, so that they will not present said knowledge to some poor unwitting audience member, thus violating their right to enjoy the performance "as intended".
Magicians, by and large, hold to a rule of "need to know". The only people who "need to know" how an effect is done, are those who are likely to perform it entertainingly. The fewer people who do know, the less likely it is that it will be shared with those who do not need or even want to know. These things are not being kept from anyone. There is no person on this planet who can not find out if they wish to. All we, the magic community, require is a token effort, and the understanding of this requirement. |
|||||||||
|
Jay Austin Regular user 184 Posts
|
By knowing the secret, one looses some of the amazement that magic can bring. The lay person looks at magic in a total different light than those of us here. They see the effect without question. That brings amazement. When we look at a trick, we can appreciate how it is done but loose some of the wonder that is created. There have been many times where I felt stupid or disapointed because the "secret" was something so simple. Magic should be shared and taught. We should be willing to help each other learn. That said, we should also only teach the secrets to those that are going to put in the effort to preform pagic wether it be professionaly or just for friends/family. It is no necessary that they preform the exact effect. Out of the hundreds of tricks that I have learned how they worked, there is a very small percentage that I actually preform. Some do not meet my style or some other need. I would not have known it unless I knew how it was done in some instances.
Chris Angel is a good magician. He has done a lot for the popularity of magic in the past few years. I do however have an issue with the way that he uses cameras in his TV shows. Creative editig should not be done. I don't think that anything should be done on TV that can not be done and done in the exact same fashion for a live audience. I do not think that there is anything wrong with using a gaff. Anything that gets the effect accomplished is great. The main goal should be entertainment and as long that is accomplished it should no matter how you got there. |
|||||||||
|
Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts
|
Although I like Jazzes distinction of 'gaff' and 'gimmick' above and may adopt it at some time in fact the two words have been used traditionally to mean exactly the same thing. A 'gimmick' is a 'gaff', etc. If you 'gaff' something up you use a 'gimmick' to do it. So the words are work as both noun and verb somewhat interchangeably. That's why I tend to use both when writing.
As to the Breather Crimp.....how is 'not' a gimmick? Does a breather exist a normal deck of cards? If not, it had to be 'constructed' at some point in time with the express purpose to do something that an 'ungaffed' card could not do. A Breather is in fact the very definition of a gimmick. In the same way, by the way, that we used to use Simonize car wax on one side of a card to make what in effect was an early Breather. A 'gaff' or 'gimmick' is ANY device that is not native to the natural function of items used in magic. A deck of cards is just a deck of cards until you start cuttin', trimmin', etc. A coin is just a coin until you hollow it, trim it, slice it, etc. The whole point is that 'gimmicks' are natural to the function of good magic and frequently their insertion is the difference between and O.K., routine and a just plain KILLER routine. I have seen at least 40-50 differing versions of sleight driven variants of the Invisible Deck. In not one case did they even begin to approach the strength and cleanness of the original. Back to my original point: The PUREST magic is driven by the purity of the EFFECT and not the method. The best method either all sleight, all gimmick or combination of the two will produce the best EFFECT and that in the end is what matters. Any audience who sits back at the end of a performance and can say the following, "Wow, what a great performance of pure sleight-of-hand!" has been cheated and terribly so. Best,
Brad Burt
|
|||||||||
|
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts
|
If anything a Breather is a gaff!
It's not extremely important as both are tools. There were discussions elsewhere on the Café about the difference between gaffs and gimmicks. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=41 http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=115 There are different opinions and I respect them. Yes, the two words are used interchangably, it's tough to differentiate the two and that's OK. The topic has been hijacked. Nice turn though. 
|
|||||||||
pradell Special user Alaska 560 Posts
|
I watched a ballet performance from backstage once and saw that each time the dancers had their backs to the audience they revealed their pain! The audience never saw their grimaces, but were under the illusion that the moves performed on stage were effortless. Why spoil the illusion? We are entertainers using magic as the vehicle for our presentations. It is not really about the "secrets" because they are the means to the end: entertainment. So why spoil the illusion for the audience? Keep your secrets to yourself when performing. When teaching and otherwise inspiring magic students to become interested and proficient in your art form, that's an entirely different purpose, and exposure of certain magical principles is appropriate.
:magicrabbit: |
|||||||||
|
Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2007-08-19 14:06, Jaz wrote: Thanks big J, great explanation.
Cards never lie
|
|||||||||
Ruben Padilla Loyal user Narrative Strategist 206 Posts
|
Magic is a procedural and physical form of wonder. Certain steps must be followed, and certain items must be displayed and/or manipulated. When the goal is to create wonder, magic can be the medium much like a canvas is the medium for a limitless number of artistic interpretations.
Revealing a secret to a magic effect makes it impossible to complete the journey to wonder. Reveal a secret and you are left with nothing more than a puzzle, a piece of technology, a collection of pretty moves, or an interesting prop. But you don't have magic... |
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Where is the manifesto? (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Posted: Aug 19, 2007 04:46 am 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|