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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Magician in your Restaurant (a different take) » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dynamike
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Poaching: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poaching I see no poaching on Lylemagic's part. He was not trespassing or stealing anything. When he suddenly noticed the private party already hired a magician, he left the scene after handing out "one" card to comfort the hostess. And he advised them to come back to his client.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-08-21 21:20, Dannydoyle wrote:
So the "food out of the mouth" isn't to compelling huh? Strange position from one who is the "Polite magician" LOL.

If you're going to take exception to my comment, please have the courtesy to discuss it in its entirety, in context. Do you consider it impolite to put the needs of one's own family above the needs of someone else's?

Quote:
On 2007-08-21 21:20, Dannydoyle wrote:
Wasn't done with malinitent huh? So it wasn't poaching?

You do fail to mention what exactly you think it was. He tried to get the client to hire him and save money next time.

Hmmmm. Pretty clear really.

I trust this wasn't addressed at me, as I never mentioned intent or poaching. If so, it's misdirected; if not, it's probably better in a separate post to enhance its clarity.
toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-22 02:12, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-22 01:48, toomuchmagic wrote:
And you know, now that I think of it...
if the lady had known there was a magician at the restaurant...she probably wouldn't have hired that other shmuck...and lyle would have made his same pay at the restaurant that night.

lyle was working already that night = no client poaching.

I cant wait for you to talk your way out of this one.


Your first sentence is absolutely right. She would have been ecstatic to find it out no doubt. No talking out of it necessary.

Private party = Chris stay away when he finds out another performer is coming. Pretty simple really. You see 1/2 of things only. Odd from one so conversant.


He did stay away...graciously after finding out someone else was going to perform at HIS venue. And out of courtesy and being the good business networker that he is, he left a card.
Dynamike
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I hope we are all on the same page now.
Dannydoyle
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Yep left her a card, and tried to get her future business. Same page indeed.

He did leave QUITE GRACIOUSLY. No doubt. I applaud his actions after he left.

With the exception of the one line.

I will say it again, he showed amazing self control. But if you can't even admit what you refuse to address, that he WAS trying to get her future business, then this is hopeless. It is not HIS venue, he is simply an employee.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
patrick flanagan
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Maybe Lyle needs to come back and define what he meant by that line. The passing out of the card at someone else's private function is in my opinion wrong. Regardless if it was at the restaurant he works at. It is a private party. A private party is just that...private, and the guest can hire anyone they want at their function. If the guest had ASKED Lyle for his card... that's different. But she didn't. Again, that is excuseable. But using the line about going to his website and checking about booking the restaurant on a night when he is working is wrong. If he had contacted this business and met with this lady prior to the private party, fair game. That's not what happened though. And I just can't understand why the Mikeateers can't grasp that concept. What in the world could have been his motivation for saying that other than trying to get that lady to hire him for their next event?? The mikeateers seem to sidestep that question eveytime Danny has raised it. Maybe he saw this as an opportunity to book a corporate client and make more money. HOw would he not make more money, toomuchmagic? I get hired by companies at my restaurant for a show at their private party (in the restaurant), I charge them the same as if it was somewhere else. I don't' charge them the what the restaurant pays me. If that is what you do, then you aren't as business savy as you allude. Then again, maybe that wasn't his intention at all. It is kind of how it reads though.
Lyle seems like a decent guy, reading some of his other posts. It's too bad this has turned into the cluster that it has.
Patrick
Scott F. Guinn
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I keep reading about "business practices" and "HIS venue."

Now, before I get into this: The other guy sounds like a total jerk. Other than handing out the card, I think Christopher is to be commended for the way he handled the matter. And just for the record, though I no longer do magic for a living, I did for well over a decade, including a number of various restaurants in the Boise area. many members of The Magic Café can attest to this, as they have personally visited or been guest-performers at my restaurant gigs over the years.

OK. First, let's talk about "HIS venue." Yes and no. It is his venue for table-hopping. No other magician should come in and start working the tables without his permission and permission from the restaurant. But, unless the restaurant expressly forbids guests from bringing in their own entertainment, a private party with another entertainer does not qualify as HIS venue. The party made that clear to him when they told him that they had another entertainer coming. He should have thanked them and left it at that--this is the ONLY qualm I have with the way he handled himself. I'll wager the party told the other guy about the incident, and that's why he got rattled. Still inexcusable, but perhaps Chris was a part of the problem.

Now, about business practices...

I've worked at various business over the years in sales, marketing and management. I was a sales manager at a well-known chain of fitness clubs in the 80's. There were other fitness clubs. We were all trying to get people to join our clubs instead of the other ones. we all used various marketing ploys to do this. No problem. But imagine this... Someone has called another club and asked to make an appointment to come in and get set up on a membership. They arrive at the club, and I am standing outside the door, and I give them my card and tell them to come join my club instead. Competition or not, this just flat is bad form.

Another example. You and I both sell real estate. Someone has called you and asked you to show them a home on the market. that home happens to be next door to my house. You pull up to meet the client and I am talking to them and giving them my business card. You're telling me you'd be cool with that? I think not...

Or let's use my current job as an example. I'm a preacher at a little church in Boise. There are lots of churches in the Greater Treasure Valley area, and we have worked with them in a number of areas. If someone comes to us and asks us about some specific wants or needs that our church doesn't fit, we would refer them to another church. But it would be quite a different matter if another pastor, who KNEW people that went to our church, tried to dissuade them from attending our church in the future to go to his church instead.

Now we can argue the merits of this situation all day. We can disagree, agree, or agree to disagree. But to me, the larger picture is this: whether or not it is a "gray area" I personally choose to try to take the high road and not have even the PERCEPTION that I have done anything untoward. As I said before, my good name is more important to me than getting or keeping a gig or being "within my rights." This is a policy that has worked well for me and kept me performing as much as I wanted to (even have to turn down many shows) for quite a long time now.

Yes, there are gonna be creeps and jerks. I would not associate with the guy from Chris' story. But I would not give my business card to his clients, either.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2007-08-22 02:51, Dannydoyle wrote:
that he WAS trying to get her future business,


Let this be a fair trial. There is not enough evidence he gave out the card for himself. It was to comfort the hostess after she felt bad after he admitted he was going to leave the table. There is probable cause he wanted what is best for his client (restaurant). He pleased his client by asking the hostess to come back for future engagements. I see Lylemagic is innocent. You know what I'm saying?
Dannydoyle
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Mike, you ask about evidence and use law references.

Sorry pal but as an ex cop having been in court, you may be using the references with the wrong guy.

HE CONFESSES to wanting her to book him next time to avoid hiring another magician. You NEVER address this as Patrick said everyone wants to avoid the question. He wasn't "making her feel better", he was asking her to book HIM.

It seems no one has addressed this specific line. Tell me what he meant OTHER than "next time come in when I am here and you don't have to hire another entertainer".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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