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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Magician in your Restaurant (a different take) » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 16:59, MagicSanta wrote:
The intent of a 'business card' is to solicit business, isn't it? That being the case then giving the card was in hope of being hired by the people down the road.

Look at it this way. These people were in a private room and they informed Mr. Lyle that they had hired a magician to work that room. At that point that room was established as the other guys performing theater and at that point any attempt to get business, which a card is designed to do, is poaching. Artist, which magicians are, are NOT the same as a business when it comes to sales attempts.

Imagine you are a painter and you had hired a studio to show your paintings for sale. You mailed out information to the art collectors in the region, you ordered the wine and crackers to give out, you went in and set things up. The event comes and the place is packed with patrons of the arts, mixed in with them are other artist giving out their cards and just wanting to let the patrons know "I have some work I think you would be interested in at my gallery showing next Saturday, perhaps more interesting than these paintings by a guy I never heard of, but don't let me stop you from buying one of these for your garage". Would that be acceptable to you? For a magician his performing area is his gallery.


This analogy is very twisted example of what happened. Reminds me of a FoxNews report on the situation.

1. Lyle did not go in and say this other guy is horrible, you should give me a call. I am better

2. art shows are very often a networking event. Cards, numbers, and sometimes even tearsheets are exchanged.

3. people have different tastes in art (and magicians). It is good to know that you have options and how to seek them out.

4. Competition is healthy

what you guys are talking about is an anti-competitive behavior and it is frowned upon. This is business ethics 101. Don't come on here and claim to preach ethics when you are actually spewing the antithesis.
MagicSanta
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No, you are confusing business in a traditional sense with the very small community of magicians. If you want to discuss the ethics of selling business to business I'll be more than happy to discuss that with you. Lyle brought up, on another thread, how he felt magicians shouldn't poach in another magicians place of employement then he posts a thread about this. By giving out his card he is giving the perception that the other magician now is clear to go into the restaurant and give his info to the GM. What I am saying is magicians, as a courtesy, shoudn't poach in another magicians working area, that is it. This doesn't mean you can't advertize, it doesn't mean you can't get your own gigs and do them so well that you might get recommended by someone. I'm looking at the bigger picture. If a regular sales guy looses a contract with one company they have several other companies as customers and also several more they are trying to get. If a magician looses his restaurant gig, that often is his only steady gig.
lunatik
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If he's a good magician, and he gets ousted by another, he will have no problems getting another job elsewhere. It's called business. It's call life!! Stop making assumptions that people should cater to you and owe you a job and that no one has the right to compete for your job. Anyone qualified has the right to apply for my job. I have no qualms about it. It just makes me better myself and I make sure that I keep my options open if I have to find another job. It's a part of life guys and I could care less how small of a section of society actually performs magic for a living. You decided to choose this career path, so join the rest of society and don't get hurt feeling if the restaurant manager lets you go and hires another magician who was soliciting. One person has wisely bowed out of this conversation when they realized that their opinions were flawed. Some more need to fess up I think.
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Review King
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Quote:
On 2007-08-19 12:38, Dannydoyle wrote:

It is the reason I STRESS relationships with the owner/manager. If you had an extreamly strong relationship with them, they would pitch you to EVERY private party they get.



For those that are serious about their future in this venue and making more money, this statement by Danny is what should stand out from this thread. It is gold for the wise performer!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
kammagic
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Lunatik,

I think the point that magicians are a small community means there is no need to fight other magicians for work. There are more magic jobs then there are magicians. I look at other magicians as family. If another magicain finds a great place to work I am proud of them but the thought never crosses my mind of taking that job away from them. You wouldn't go up right in front of your friend and hit on his girl and you don't solicit their job while they are working it. Jeez have some class will you.

, Jonathan
derrick
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Lunatik,

I hope you are treated to a good dose of "life" someday. I'm sure you will deserve it.

Derrick
toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 18:09, MagicSanta wrote:
No, you are confusing business in a traditional sense with the very small community of magicians. If you want to discuss the ethics of selling business to business I'll be more than happy to discuss that with you. Lyle brought up, on another thread, how he felt magicians shouldn't poach in another magicians place of employement then he posts a thread about this. By giving out his card he is giving the perception that the other magician now is clear to go into the restaurant and give his info to the GM. What I am saying is magicians, as a courtesy, shoudn't poach in another magicians working area, that is it. This doesn't mean you can't advertize, it doesn't mean you can't get your own gigs and do them so well that you might get recommended by someone. I'm looking at the bigger picture. If a regular sales guy looses a contract with one company they have several other companies as customers and also several more they are trying to get. If a magician looses his restaurant gig, that often is his only steady gig.


Oh I am sorry. So we are all supposed to follow the rules that you made up for yourself. Show me where this is laid out anywhere.

Even still, that guy was on Lyle's turf. Not the other way around. And in either case it does not matter.

That is a joke.

I am sorry but business is business. Lyle was not being malicious. He was handing out a GD business card. Get over yourselves.

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 9:36pm
I agree that a relationship with the owner is key, but you are not irreplaceable under any circumstances, and there will always be someone gunning for you position. ANYWHERE. IN ANY BUSINESS.

That needs to be realized.
MagicSanta
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I used a sharpie to put your name on the list of job poachers....
Review King
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 20:05, kammagic wrote:
Lunatik,

I think the point that magicians are a small community means there is no need to fight other magicians for work. There are more magic jobs then there are magicians. I look at other magicians as family. If another magicain finds a great place to work I am proud of them but the thought never crosses my mind of taking that job away from them. You wouldn't go up right in front of your friend and hit on his girl and you don't solicit their job while they are working it. Jeez have some class will you.

, Jonathan


Jonathan, beautiful words!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 21:36, toomuchmagic wrote:
I agree that a relationship with the owner is key, but you are not irreplaceable under any circumstances, and there will always be someone gunning for you position. ANYWHERE. IN ANY BUSINESS.

That needs to be realized.


that's not true. In careers where the jobs out number the workers this is seldom seen. I've been working 15+ years and never had a job stolen from me or stolen one from anybody else. In the magic business If you are so lazy that you can't find your own job and you resort to poaching fellow magicians jobs you are pretty sad. If this business tactic is part of your personality I am sure it shows in your work as well. Not a good business decision as far as I'm concerned.

, Jonathan
toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 21:46, MagicSanta wrote:
I used a sharpie to put your name on the list of job poachers....


You're a real winner aren't you.

If you are a good magician you have nothing to worry about.

Posted: Aug 20, 2007 10:23pm
What are you worried about.
Handing out business cards and advertising for yourself is not poaching.

I used blood to put your name on top of the list of whiney ******
MagicSanta
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For those in the Conneticut area I found a list of places for you to go look for potential work! New London...subs....good stuff and you don't need to do the groundwork yourself!
toomuchmagic
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Look I know you live in a fantasy world at the north pole...

but you have some serious issues...
Marshall Thornside
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I wouldn't have gone up to the group at all.

Private is private, they have something planned.

If they wanted something in particular, they
would have arranged it with the Manager etc...

But you did the right thing by not having a public
conflict with the idiot.

I would have punched the guy in the lower region.

:)
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toomuchmagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 22:55, MagicSanta wrote:
For those in the Conneticut area I found a list of places for you to go look for potential work! New London...subs....good stuff and you don't need to do the groundwork yourself!


LISTEN

the guy did not go and call up a list of the others clients. He left his business card with someone.

You are a child.
RobertBloor
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 19:54, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-19 12:38, Dannydoyle wrote:

It is the reason I STRESS relationships with the owner/manager. If you had an extreamly strong relationship with them, they would pitch you to EVERY private party they get.



For those that are serious about their future in this venue and making more money, this statement by Danny is what should stand out from this thread. It is gold for the wise performer!


Well actually two statements. The one Danny made and this one you made...

Quote:
Chris: I guess it's so outrageous, I have trouble believing it.
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,"
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derrick
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So if your going to try and poach another magician's gig, the proper way to do it is in person with your business card? Calling the other magician's client is in poor taste. OK
Christopher Lyle
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Boy...I had no idea this thing would open up such a big can of worms. This is like the tip thing...we're never going to agree on the correct form of action. Half of you agree with what I did and don't see anything wrong, the other half of you agree that this guy was a jerk but think I might have provoked it by handing the person my card and then there's Danny. I don't think I did anything wrong (sorry Danny...not buyin' it). I stand by my actions.

The ONLY thing I would have done differently would have been to keep my eyes open for the other magician when he came in so I could have introduced myself. Maybe then I could have gotten a better judge of his character.

Other than that, I wouldn't change a thing. Maybe time to put this one to bed...

Zipping up the flame proof suit....
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
kammagic
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Quote:
On 2007-08-20 23:14, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-08-20 22:55, MagicSanta wrote:
For those in the Conneticut area I found a list of places for you to go look for potential work! New London...subs....good stuff and you don't need to do the groundwork yourself!


LISTEN

the guy did not go and call up a list of the others clients. He left his business card with someone.

You are a child.


toomuchmagic,

I suppose your best friend would be ok with you giving your phone number to his girlfriend?
MagicSanta
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Man...that calling me a child convinced me I was wrong. Magic IS the same as manufacturing or any other business and should be handled the same way. I deeply, deeply, am sorry for my confusion. I must go put on my (name of those things kids wear on their arms that blow up when they swim) for it seems I may soon be tossed off a bridge. At least it is Summer so the water should be warm and I won't hit my noggin on a chunk of ice.
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