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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorized Deck Routines - Which Books/DVDs? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bottsbeans
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Which books and/or DVDs would you recommend that have great effects used with a memorized deck?
Christopher Williams
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Mnemonica by Juan Tamariz for a start...Is there a particular stack you are interested in? Or any routines in particular you want to learn?
www.magicman13.co.uk

Copies of the limited edition 'MindPlay' still available
bottsbeans
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I've learned the Joyal stack and the routines in Six Hours to a Memorized Deck but kind of wanted to expand and see what else was possible.

No routines in particular, I'd just like to find several that play really well that can be done in sequence.
MagicMonkey#3
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I would recommend Andrew Mayne's Zero memorization memorized deck. It is three phases, last of which you recite the cards where a spectator cut.
"For those who believe, no explanation is neccessary. For those who do not, none will suffice."-Dunninger
kerpa
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Bound to Please
Try the Impossible
both by Simon Aronson - both excellent

But also - Stack Attack by Lew Brooks, DVD (and also available as book) - I just got this, and I really like it. It is a nice way to get an introduction to stacks, which are in effect, partial memorized decks. The "false false shuffle" is a really easy nice way to add shuffling to MD routines. I'm currently working on Order From Chaos, which uses a 13 card stack - I think it's going to be great for me. It's really neat how Lew teaches how to bury a stack and retrieve it through "false false shuffling."

Because - if you get into memdeck routines, you are absolutely going to have to master false cuts and shuffles. Lew Brooks gives a rather painless introduction to false shuffles and also a really easy false cut.

Most false cuts out there are for table work - including Lew Brooks'. If you want a false cut that is in the hands, for standing up, I recommend you check out Sam The Bellhop, by Bill Malone - he includes a good in the hands false cut. It's on one of the On The Loose DVDs (I forget which one) - and also on an older VHS devoted soley to Sam The Bellhop.

Finally, some graduate level mem deck work is presented in a chapter in Tangled Web, by Eric Mead. I have the book and like it a lot, but I'm not ready for what he presents - but it is interesting, as it has a method for having the spectator riffle shuffle a memorized deck, and restoring the order!

Hope this helps.
Michael Miller
(Michael Merlin: original family --and stage-- name)
Lukenp
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Darwin Ortiz's book Scams and Fantasies and also Simon Aronson's DVD Volume 3.
"Be natural"

-Dai Vernon
edh
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I am just a newbie to memdeck work. But if you would look into Dennis Loomis', Simon Aronson's website I think that would give you a start into the direction you want to go in.

The AS is what I memorized, only because it has a lot of built-in effects.

Another site that I would recommend visiting( and I say this hoping to keep a good thing from being exposed) is Nick Pudar's weblog. He has some very interesting ideas. What I like about the weblog is that he explains why the ideas work.

As far as books/dvds I can only recommend what has been offered before.

I'm using the AS so in my case it would be "Try the Impossible", "Bound to Please", by Simon Aronson. Please understand that I don't own any of the aforementioned books. Although they do come highly recommended. And I intend to by these books once funds become readily available to me.

Again just my opinion.
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The Amazing Noobini
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Consider that Mnemonica is a book specific to the Tamariz Stack order and that Bound to Please and Try the Impossible are both specific to the Aronson Stack order. I'm sure there are many effects that can be adapted but to begin with I think that is too confusing and complicated. You want something that can be used straight out of the box so if you get any of these titles, then you should already have made your choice.

If you want to learn or have already learned the Tamariz Stack, then Mnemonica should be the book to get. If you have already learned the Aronson Stack, then Try The Impossible is the one to get. If you are going to learn the Aronson stack but haven't already, then Bound to Please may be more relevant, although I think you can just as well use the forums here and Aronson's web page and skip Bound To Please altogether and go straight for Try The Impossible (which I just started on today).

Why anyone should want to get a full Bill Malone DVD just to learn one false cut is beyond me. Actually people's fascination with Sam The Bellhop is slightly beyond me.

kerpa makes an excellent point about needing false shuffles though. But one thing at a time. Tell us what type of effects you would like to be able to do with your memorized deck and get back to us.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
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erlandish
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Quote:
On 2007-08-29 18:43, The Amazing Noobini wrote:
Consider that Mnemonica is a book specific to the Tamariz Stack order and that Bound to Please and Try the Impossible are both specific to the Aronson Stack order.


I'm not sure I totally agree with describing the books in this manner. While there are a large number of effects in Mnemonica devoted to the M stack, there are also a lot of stack-independent effects, principles and techniques.
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The Amazing Noobini
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Quote:
On 2007-08-29 19:34, erlandish wrote:

I'm not sure I totally agree with describing the books in this manner. While there are a large number of effects in Mnemonica devoted to the M stack, there are also a lot of stack-independent effects, principles and techniques.


You may very well be right. I have only looked at the index list of the contents of Mnemonica, looking for stack independent effects, and I couldn't see any. I don't own the book and I decided against buying it because I couldn't see anything I could use except the mnemonic system for learning the order, which I know already anyway.

I may have misunderstood the categories. I think there were some effects called "tricks that improve with Mnemonica" or something like that, but I took those to be tricks ordinarily performed with a regular deck. I guess I'm wrong. Sorry.

However, since Menmonica costs as much as a slightly used space shuttle, I would still get an Aronson book for Aronson stack effects since these books are written especially for that.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
Caliban
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I only use the Aronson Stack and I must say that I got a lot out of Mnemonica. The majority of the tricks and virtually all the techniques are stack-independent. The main thing that isn't is the business of generating the stack from (European) new deck order - that will only work with the Tamariz stack. If you are really interested in memorised deck work, though, Mnemonica is a book you'll really want to own.

I would say the essential three memorised deck books are ...

MNEMONICA (Tamariz)
SIMPLY SIMON (Aronson): Contains some of the finst memorised deck routines ever created, but most are more suitable for a formal show because the stack is detroyed during the routines.
WORKERS 5 (Close): Probably the best source for using the memorised deck at real world close-up gigs where you need to maintain the stack so that you can do it all again on the next table.

Add to that BOUND TO PLEASE (Aronson) if you want a source for actually learning the Aronson Stack. TRY THE IMPOSSIBLE (Aronson) contains quite a bit of material, but the majority are stack-dependent tricks that work only with the Aronson Stack.
erlandish
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Quote:
On 2007-08-30 06:51, The Amazing Noobini wrote:
I may have misunderstood the categories. I think there were some effects called "tricks that improve with Mnemonica" or something like that, but I took those to be tricks ordinarily performed with a regular deck. I guess I'm wrong. Sorry.


That's fair enough, and there was no need to apologize -- Juan Tamariz does get enthusiastic about his own stuff so the misunderstanding makes sense.

Both Mnemonica and the AS have built-in features (poker demos, spelling effects, Aronson's bridge deal, Mnemonica's new deck order feature, etc.) that make them unique, but things like ACAAN, named-card Triumph, named-4-of-a-kind reverse, memorized brainwaves, The Trick That Cannot Be Explained variants etc. are stack independent -- the working principles have more to do with the index-value relationship, counting, cutting and estimating, culling, etc. In Mnemonica, besides stack-dependent and independent effects, there are also card handling techniques specific to the stack worker. It's a good book. A little too advanced for me at the moment, but I won't be parting with my copy.
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The Amazing Noobini
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I think that I will probably memorize the Tamariz stack order as well as the Aronson eventually. It sounds like an exciting stack so why not get the full benefit of both? I enjoyed the cramming of the Aronson stack even though it took me forever. But I will wait until I am even more secure in the Aronson stack before starting on the next one. I still sometimes make mistakes.

And that is important... more and more I realize that I need to pace myself and understand things bettewr instead of learning more new things.. So that is what I think bottsbeans needs to do as well, if he doesn't yet know a stack order by heart. Pick one system and one book/DVD and really explore that.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell)
"Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry)
bottsbeans
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Glad you mentioned that. I have learned the Joyal stack and am planning to work exclusively with that stack for quite some time. That said, I'm looking for books with 'stack independent' routines that I can apply to this stack.

I would like to get books though, like Tamariz and Aronson, so that if I choose to memorize a 2nd or 3rd stack, I can do so. However, I will not even begin to think about learning another stack until I have the Joyal and some routines down cold.
Josh Chaikin
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Another book to look into for memorized deck work is John Born's Meant to Be. Last I heard he only had a few copies left.
Caliban
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All the memdeck routines in Simply Simon, and all but one of the memdeck routines in Workers 5, are stack independent.
Maestro
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Is it possible to reliably memorize two stacks? Not that it would be the best use for your time, but I need to choose one and I didn't know if memorizing one would hinder your memorization of another.
Steve Haynes
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It does not matter what MD you use, as all the books mentioned above are goldmines and have non stack dependant material.
bottsbeans
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Quote:
On 2007-08-30 12:36, Maestro wrote:
Is it possible to reliably memorize two stacks? Not that it would be the best use for your time, but I need to choose one and I didn't know if memorizing one would hinder your memorization of another.


I would think you'd need to memorize one deck and have it down cold, with several routines working well before attempting to memorize a second stack sequence.
Josh Chaikin
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Quote:
On 2007-08-30 12:36, Maestro wrote:
Is it possible to reliably memorize two stacks? Not that it would be the best use for your time, but I need to choose one and I didn't know if memorizing one would hinder your memorization of another.


Absolutely. John Born has two stacks memorized. The memory is a powerful thing. People can be fluent in several languages, actors memorize dozens of plays, why would stacks be any different?

Granted, they would have to be down cold, as previously mentioned.
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