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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
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On 2007-09-02 11:42, 61magic wrote: Good for Snap Illusions. They are supplying a prop to those that can't afford the more expensive ones. I note they are not having to pay royalties to any designers. Building public domain illusions is a cost effective way to go. I also note that they are making more than $50 above material costs which was the point I was trying to make. Are they ripping the consumer off as well? I don't think so. Regards advice... what part was offered that seemed bad? We simply suggested the guy do research and find out what it really costs before committing to $50 profit above materials cost. I'd call any tips on keeping the "open for business" sign supplied with electricity helpful. Dustin started this thread asking for business advice and not craftmanship advice. He got advice from those who are best suited to advise.... other builders. Who better to advise?? What did the builders get in response??? Flames and accusations. Oooooo... those evil builders and their $400 an hr paychecks. Wicked they are I tell you...WICKED! Best, Tim |
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Jack Murray Special user St. Petersburg Fl. 773 Posts |
I don't want this to sound like a "sales pitch" but I believe my work speaks for itself. Most of my clients can't believe the quality they get for the price paid. I KNOW the price/quality ratio is probably the best around, so I DO provide effects "at a reasonable price".
I'm certainly not getting rich, but I'm doing what I really enjoy doing. Here is a price comparison: In 1973 I purchased a new car off the showroom floor. It was a mid-priced car with AC and delux "stuff". It cost $3280. Some midpriced cars today cost TEN times more today. That's because the auto worker is making GOOD money. Why then should someone, who doesn't belone to a STRONG union, make a "good" wage as well. Like the posts above, the costs in being a full time builder AREN'T cheap!!! Jack
Jack Murray
http://www.dream-illusions.com |
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NicholasC New user 16 Posts |
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On 2007-09-02 11:48, martini wrote: DK doesn’t mention he’ll work with other people. DK said he won’t pay for labor. In that case wages $1600 comes off. If you don’t have work you won’t pay so high bills. If you work you are making enough money to pay it. You could work in your garage to avoid insurances. I would say to DK try it and you’ll see what happen. |
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Magic Patrick Inner circle Minnesota 1591 Posts |
Flames and accusations? LOL. those evil builders and their $400 an hr paychecks. Wicked they are I tell you...WICKED! LORL.
Tim, If I offended you I am sorry. I own a couple illusions that are $4K plus. They are well made, powder coated and built to last but that still doesn't change the fact that they are being sold for a lot more than they are being built. These are not flames or accusations. To let everyone know that the product that I bought was way overpriced and poorly made is not flaming either. I think that it is a little dishonest to overprice something that is not really well made. Getting into illusions is a very expensive task to take on. I am all for someone helping others to get into the business without having to pay an arm and a leg. It is only flaming if it is untrue. Let me know what I said that was untrue and I will take it right out. Dustin, I know some cabinet makers that do wonderful work without having to pay Martini's monthly prices. They build from their garage and they have all that they need in their garage. So they aren't paying rent, wages, extra electricity, extra heat and taxes (at least not until they sell a product). I made a palanquin in my garage and it works and looks fine. I made it all complete for only $300. It took me 15 - 20 hours to make. I am not a builder but so I took a lot more time for this one. However if I were to make these all the time my time would lower. Go for it and as with all business as you outgrow your garage then move into a bigger area. It seems to me that it isn't wise to go full on without having sold a single illusion. It makes more since to build a reputation and client list before you start getting into the bigger shops. I really mean it when I say put me on your potential illusion buyers list. Thanks again and good luck. |
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
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On 2007-09-02 12:37, BYUDAD wrote: Many thanks BYUDAD. I'm not really offended but can't understand why we are having people accuse us of trying to discourage the guy. We were trying to offer him advice to jump over the same pitfalls every builder had gone through. Let him make a product at a lower cost but let him make a profit as well. It was his idea to make a measly $50 on each prop. That is what freaked me. It reminds me of all the amateur performers who do shows at cost " for the publicity". What a crock that is...LOL. Been there done that and boy was I sorry. Regards suspicion of trying to oppress him. I can understand that to some degree. I had my competition lecture me once that I was too cheap. He told me I'd never get anywhere unless I raised my prices. He told me that unless I charged more I'd never be able to afford nicer props or pay my bills. I was mighty green then and was sure he was trying to make me raise my price because he was afraid of the lower priced competition. Who did he think he was fooling??? Turns out the only one being fooled was me by myself. As I grew up in magic I started to take his advice and he was RIGHT!!!! I raised my prices to a decent level and things took a sharp turn upward. I have now passed that same info on to any other performer who told me they were frustrated to the point of giving up because magic wasn't paying their bills. It has worked the same for many of them as well. PETER MENNIE... if you are reading this.. I OWE YOU and that magical advice of yours! Best, Tim |
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Jack Murray Special user St. Petersburg Fl. 773 Posts |
Here is a good question? "How much is a stage prop worth if it gives you 10 or more years of trouble free service?
Jack Murray
http://www.dream-illusions.com |
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DustinKnouse New user 21 Posts |
Thank you guys so much for the advice. I hadn't read ths in a couple of days.
I understand that builders are being helpful, and not discouraging. I didn't think they were being discouraging. With my plan I am not a competitor for most builders, and I felt that was obvious from the beginning. I would be out to sell to the beginning magician. Peter and Tim are building for the professional magician who wants something more unique. I know a lot of builders who don't want to deal with the amateurs, and I have heard plenty of stories as to why that is. I do have other work to pay my bills, and this would be a part time thing for me. Tim and Peter want to make this a living, and right now that's not my goal. If it takes off one day, yes I would have to raise my prices and take a different tactic. My thought was to start building standard illusions for the amateur. I understand what Tim and Peter sell has to be expensive. If someone came to me and asked me to build them a water torture sell, it wouldn't be cheap at all. And that wouldn't just be for the materials. I started this thread to hea pros and cons from both builders and magicians. Let's not argue. If a builder does see me as a threat, let him say his word. I may question why, but we're not on here to argue. Builders can call magicians cheap, and magicians can call builders over priced but that isn't going to get us anywhere. Everyone has their own opinions and reasons. Overhead on any real business is insane, I know. As for those who want to see video of what I build tune in to A&E every Tuesday night at 10 pm. |
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
Hi Dustin,
I refuse to watch the show so I'll have to wait for you to post a website to show off your work. LOL Thanks for your understanding of our posts. Yes we argue a lot here at the Café but that's all it is...just arguement. It's rarely personal. We're passionate about our magic and don't hide that fact here which you'll surely see more of as you post more. LOL My best friends here at the Café mostly started of on other sides of an opinion that we did not share. that's all it is though.. an opinion and we move on. Best, Tim |
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DustinKnouse New user 21 Posts |
Tim, out of curiousit, what is your reason for not watching the show? I don't take any offense to it, there are a lot of reasons not to watch mindfreak. Just curious as to what yours are.
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
We should probably take this up in another thread but since you asked....
Short Version..... Its not magic. It's an updated Bewitched. Good for Chris for doing so well for himself but this show is so staged and CGI'd it isn't what I'd call a magic show. Copperfields flying still gives me goosebumps but watching Superman fly around the world doesn't do much for me.. if that makes it any clearer. I recently used another example in another thread.... Tiger Woods wouldn't be too impressed with Happy Gilmores trick shots so why should magicians be impressed with Criss's camera edits. I'll wait for the Live show and cheer him on then. Do a search here on the Café and you'll find extensive debate on the topic. Some are in agreement with me and others are cool with camera tricks. You'll find it interesting reading. Best, Tim |
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Paulo Cabrita Special user 820 Posts |
Expenditures and where is the list the profits?
Paulo |
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DustinKnouse New user 21 Posts |
You're right, Tim, this would turn into another thread. Anyway, I was checking out your site and I wanted to check out the hologram illusion, but unfortunately the videos aren't working. The pictures look cool.
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