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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Well obviously we all have differing opinions, and although there will always be some "polarization" on this (and other) issues, I do appreciate the liveley discussion. By and large most of the folks here are pretty cool.
Ron :)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
The vast majority of people who have 'exposed' Geller were reporters. This was done in Time Magazine, Reader's Digest, and many other well-known publications. At least two reporters have articles online where they relate that they caught Geller cheating, as did at least one reporter back in 1973.
Even when Randi aided Carson when Uri Geller appeared on the Tonight Show, and Geller subsequently failed, Randi was already late with regard to affecting the mainstream public credibility of Uri Geller. Most people who had heard of Geller already thought he was a fake. Yes, he fooled a lot of people, and some of those people were very smart. He did not fool most people. This is all in the public record. Randi is a straw man for some people who are bothered by the realization that only a dwindling minority believe in similar extraordinary claims. Randi isn't, and never has been, the reason that most people don't believe in Uri Geller's claims. Nor is he the primary reason that there are fewer people who believe in his claims today, although Randi probably helped the numbers to decrease. Look outward and inward. That's where the answer lies. Quote:
I think empathy and understanding can achieve more than banging someone over the head with the 'truth'. I also agree, because you used the word can, although 'empathy and understanding,' and 'truth,' aren't always mutually exclusive. If someone thanks you after they've been told the truth, then it was probably the right thing to do. Even if they don't, then in some cases it still might have been the right thing to do.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
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Waters Inner circle 2508 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-07 21:38, Bill Hallahan wrote:That's where the answer lies. Also agreed! A painful, but kind, truth is better than an appeasing falsehood. Thanks Bill. Sean |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w7jHYri......;search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSko0byaDiI&NR=1 Seen the Carson show live as a kid. Loved it. I don't mind magicians simply letting it up to the audience to decide, but Geller took it a little too far by scamming others financially. I always been a fan of James Randi's since I started magic. I love the look on Uri's face when he came out and said "this scares me." Because he knew he was going to get owned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvaUa559g......;search= Carson's last TV appearance. That was awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8......;search= That was hilarious. Styrofoam is very powerful blocking agent due to static electricity, he should have known that. I am surprised he did not at least attempt it, but I guess the humiliation would have been far too great. His psychic power was working so great just minutes previously too. I also laughed when I seen the running head start after the initial failure, even I could feel the breeze from that at home. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8......;search= That was hilarious. Styrofoam is very powerful blocking agent due to static electricity, he should have known that. I am surprised he did not at least attempt it, but I guess the humiliation would have been far too great. His psychic power was working so great just minutes previously too. I also laughed when I seen the running head start after the initial failure, even I could feel the breeze from that at home. "Magician and paranormal skeptic James Randi demonstrated the pencil trick on the television program That's My Line, hosted by Bob Barker. [1] In a follow-up episode, Randi and Hydrick both appeared. When Randi performed the simple control of placing small pieces of Styrofoam "peanuts" on the table around the phone book (to show if Hydrick was actually turning the pages by blowing on them), Hydrick's "powers" suddenly failed him. Hydrick attempted to explain that when the foam was heated by the stage lights they developed a static electric charge which, when added to the weight of the page, required more force than he was able to generate to turn the page. Randi and the judges, though, declared that this theory had no scientific basis. After an hour and a half of Hydrick staring at the pages (the show was edited for time) without any results, and indignantly claiming that his powers were real, he finally admitted being unable to complete the challenge. The judging panel (which included a parapsychologist) stated that, in their opinion, no supernatural phenomenon had taken place. The failed stunt resulted in the television show That's Incredible receiving a Pigasus Award, and effectively ended Hydrick's television career in a humiliating fashion (following Hydrick's concession to failure, Randi himself performed the same trick using the techniques that Hydrick perfected). In 1981, Hydrick's psychic powers were definitively exposed as being fraudulent by investigative journalist Dan Korem. Hydrick confessed his fraud to Korem and admitted that he had developed his unique talent while he was in prison, and did not learn it from a Chinese master as he had originally claimed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlfMsZwr8......;search= That was hilarious. Styrofoam is very powerful blocking agent due to static electricity, he should have known that. I am surprised he did not at least attempt it, but I guess the humiliation would have been far too great. His psychic power was working so great just minutes previously too. I also laughed when I seen the running head start after the initial failure, even I could feel the breeze from that at home. "Magician and paranormal skeptic James Randi demonstrated the pencil trick on the television program That's My Line, hosted by Bob Barker. [1] In a follow-up episode, Randi and Hydrick both appeared. When Randi performed the simple control of placing small pieces of Styrofoam "peanuts" on the table around the phone book (to show if Hydrick was actually turning the pages by blowing on them), Hydrick's "powers" suddenly failed him. Hydrick attempted to explain that when the foam was heated by the stage lights they developed a static electric charge which, when added to the weight of the page, required more force than he was able to generate to turn the page. Randi and the judges, though, declared that this theory had no scientific basis. After an hour and a half of Hydrick staring at the pages (the show was edited for time) without any results, and indignantly claiming that his powers were real, he finally admitted being unable to complete the challenge. The judging panel (which included a parapsychologist) stated that, in their opinion, no supernatural phenomenon had taken place. The failed stunt resulted in the television show That's Incredible receiving a Pigasus Award, and effectively ended Hydrick's television career in a humiliating fashion (following Hydrick's concession to failure, Randi himself performed the same trick using the techniques that Hydrick perfected). In 1981, Hydrick's psychic powers were definitively exposed as being fraudulent by investigative journalist Dan Korem. Hydrick confessed his fraud to Korem and admitted that he had developed his unique talent while he was in prison, and did not learn it from a Chinese master as he had originally claimed.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Waters Inner circle 2508 Posts |
Oh what a tangled web we weave...
Sad indeed! Sean |
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ssucahyo Inner circle 1954 Posts |
Bravo.....James Randi!!!!!
Cheers, CC |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The irony everyone misses is Jim/Jack using Randi, for PUBLICITY which is most peoples knock at Randi.
I always ask, and never get an answer so I ask again, "How many college degrees do you think I could have if I WAS writing the tests?". Do you think I would ever fail one or get even a single question wrong? I mean if I make the answer key and everything? The very idea of setting up YOUR OWN TEST, my lord you had better pass it or I really would be upset. This is not scientific method in any fashion. It is simply setting up a card trick and you controling the angles at which they watch them from. It is somewhat like a magician claiming he can transport, provided you let him use HIS equipment, and watch from exactly where he says you do. Randi has nothing to prove or disprove. That is why "scientific method" us used by reasonable people. We all know Jim/Jack's responces to things. We all know he twists words, tries to be vague and wants to ride Randi and his coat tails as far as he possibly can. It is ironic but he calls them a cult, when him and his lap dogs, who have jumped in here LOL, are just as much dug in with their opinion. Yep Randi has been challenged by Jim/Jack. BUT he may as well have challenged him to a foot race for all it matters and for how valid the challenge Jim/Jack lays down. This has gone this way and it will go this way for a long time. I am not saying it is right or wrong, just that this is the dance Jim/Jack will be doing forever. He will never step up for he has no way to win, and he has LOT to lose. I at least respect him for knowing that this is the truth. Actually by not taking the challenge he says more about his "abilities" than most think. As for "behind the curtain? Oh please just think of what you did to sign on here, let alone lurk, and tell me we are "amongst ourselvs!". God no we are not amongst ourselvs. So if Jim/Jack wants to keep his vail of secrecy I can see why. I don't blame him. The difference in that and the card guys is almost NOBODY believes what is done with cards as actual magic. The card guys are KNOWN to manipulate them and kind of live off of that and it is ok. This section is a bit different. I admit it frustrating that guys want us to believe as if we are not the "initiated" but I can see why. WE ARE NOT ALONE HERE, no matter what you think.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I think Doris Colins had the best way of dealing with Randi..
youtube.com She came out looking better than him. And at the end of this film the film makers seem to take her side rather than Randi's |
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-09 11:38, Dannydoyle wrote: I sure didn't miss that irony. I've been saying the exact same thing since my first week on this forum, as it's pretty obvious. |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
I see what you're saying, Dannydoyle. But then Jim/Jack's insistence (or anyone's insistence) of his/her "genuine paranormal powers" places him in the same company as a John Edwards or a Sylvia Browne rather than, say, a Richard Osterlind type of performer. This naturally opens him up to scrutiny - be it by magicians or by laypeople.
I have nothing personal against Jim/Jack. Just want to know which side of the fence he's on - the Richard Osterlind "I'm a performer and anyone can develop the abilities to do what I do" type, or the Sylvia Browne "I REALLY communicate with the dead - pay me $700 for a session" type. Some here may choose to believe wholeheartedy in the Uri Gellers, John Edwards, and Sylvia Brownes of the world. No amount of discussion will convince them otherwise. Likewise, the Randi supporters will not waiver. I, for one, would rather put my trust in the ways and methods of science. Just my two cents. Ron :)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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7th_Son Elite user Australia 437 Posts |
James Randi for President.
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-09 19:45, 7th_Son wrote: Not likely! |
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
He isn't a native born citizen is he? I thought he was a norderer' from some country way up yonder.
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czero Loyal user NYC 282 Posts |
Randi has utterly debunked Peter Popoff ("Prophet" Peter to those who send for his "Miracle Spring Water"), Sylvia Browne (since before she added the "e" to her surname), and the "psychic surgeons" of the Phillipines...to name just a VERY few.
Has he made a single thin dime by doing so? Has he saved COUNTLESS people COUNTLESS dollars and incalculable amounts of false hope and the inevitable resultant heartache by doing so? Think about it. --Mike P.S. Jim, You're beyond pathetic. It's one thing to claim genuine powers as part of your schtick, but to undermine the work of anyone who exposes those who prey upon the sick, dying, and bereaved...i don't know how you can sleep at night. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Has he made a dime doing it? Slow down take a breath and ask yourself that again. The answer will come to you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
I also don't care for those who prey on the helpless...my pet peeve is those who prey on children but I am getting a teeny tiny bit off topic here.
Randi's concern for the vulnerable in our society is touching... His debunking slowed these people down you mentioned but essentially made no difference. |
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts |
The difference he made is making the public be aware of all those frauds. In 1987 Peter Popoff went bankrupt because of Randi and lost all his followers.
Obviously no one can stop all those people completely unless they get arrested, but to say Randi made no difference is far from the truth. |
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7th_Son Elite user Australia 437 Posts |
Quote:
Don't be so naive. He makes a lot of money giving talks.
"Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet!" - Groucho Marx
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princehal Loyal user Pennsylvania 214 Posts |
So?
When people wrap themselves in the cloak of professing actual paranormal abilities, they demean entirely the work and skill of honest entertainers. Someone above said "But I do think it is just a tad hypocritical to hold your belief to be correct and those of others not to be". Is that not what those who profess to actual paranormal abilities do? And anyone who preys on the vulnerable indeed deserves whatever exposure can be given them There are not enough Randi's around. Mystery is good. Lying to and manipulation of the gullible -- not so much. |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-10 21:01, princehal wrote: You did realize that this sentence is a paradox?
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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