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brainchild Loyal user Ideological Bigot 259 Posts |
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On 2007-09-07 07:56, Prof. Alexander wrote: I can relate to a lot of this. I like your perspective. |
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princehal Loyal user Pennsylvania 214 Posts |
Woo Woo.... gaze into my eyyyyeeeeezzzzzzzzzz. You Will Believe!
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
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On 2007-09-10 21:39, princehal wrote: He might, but he isn't here. |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
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On 2007-09-10 21:01, princehal wrote: I'm still trying to understand how these two things can go together without fighting like two mad cats in heat...
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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princehal Loyal user Pennsylvania 214 Posts |
Are you suggesting that Randi preys on the vulnerable? How so?
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On 2007-09-10 21:45, Lord Of The Horses wrote: |
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princehal Loyal user Pennsylvania 214 Posts |
Ok, I don't mean to step on toes here. Seriously.
I am a scientist by trade, and perhaps this world view is often at odds with paranormal claims, religion, et al... But living in a country where most of the occupants profess a belief in religion, and the paranormal (goold old USA!), and then claim victim status when these claims are challenged -- I get a bit curious. |
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princehal Loyal user Pennsylvania 214 Posts |
Is it possible, here, to agree to disagree?
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Yup
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
I love this type of discussion (specially science / beleif systems / paranormal) I think it's a shame that we face the danger of having the thread locked or deleted. Usually this happens just when people are begining to open up and type their 'Inner Thoughts'. Perhaps we need a 'Discuss It Here' Forum with much more liberal moderation. Unlikely, I know but sometimes I think it would be nice.
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Mariagi Special user MIND, MYTH & MAGICK 654 Posts |
Nice I agree. But unlikely. Seem as if theres some taboo forbidding to tell some [uneasy] truths about some people..
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TheGreatGalling Loyal user 245 Posts |
Geller is more harmless than other people out there and while I don't blame Randi for challenging anyone who claims supernatural powers, my beef is with "psychics" who continue to take money from grieving families and fill them with false hope, at least in the context that they are speaking to our loved ones. Perhaps a few actually believe they have supernatural abilities, but I am sure there are those who know they do not and continue their cons. I am biased because my family looked for any help they could get when a close family member went missing and I know how powerful hope and denial can be. When I became more knowledgeable about cold reading and mentalism, I recognized many of the techniques employed.
There's an operational quote cons live by. It's if the mark is stupid enough to be conned, then he doesn't diserve his money. I disagree with that when it comes to death. During loss, we aren't ourselves. We become so sad our minds create involuntary instinctual responses over which we have little control. Most cons exploit greed which is still terrible. Exploiting desperation is absolutely deplaurable. Its not that we are stupid when we grieve. We can't help it and thus we can rightfully be called victims if someone takes advantage. Some defend their actions by claiming psychics' offering false hope and comfort is worth the lie. After studying psychology and the grieving process, I feel false hope affects the natural process we must go through negatively and ultimately does a great disservice to greivers who need to face their loss. I will always continue to wave my flag in support of anyone who works to stop this terrible reality and I will continue to defend the helpless. Joe |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Yes, I agree with Joe, fraudulent psychics who steal big sums of money from families and cheat them without mercy into believing their passed away relatives are telling them to do this and that (all for the fraudulent psychic benefit!) should be put at the same level of rapists and of child molesters.
Both are ruining life of people, especially their psyche I would say, and that is in my opinion one of the worst possible crimes against another fellow human being.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts |
The worst part is that the police are doing nothing to stop them.
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Well, IF that's true, DJM (because I don't know if they REALLY do nothing to stop them, as you wrote) at least they are fair in the sense that they sadly do nothing about BOTH SIDES.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
You’re very right, Joe. There is a natural process of grief and when a “psychic” claims to speak to a lost loved one, they interrupt and impede that natural process. They do tremendous harm to the person.
In an interview with Sylvia Browne’s ex husband, he said he once asked her how she could conscionably make things up off the top of her head and tell people nonsense when she knew they believed it. She responded with something to the effect of, “Anyone stupid enough to believe me deserves to be swindled.” Yes, there are “psychics” who are deluded and believe they actually have powers. That doesn’t in any way negate the fact that “psychics” do tremendous harm to people and society in general. One of the problems is that many people do not see the harm these people cause. In Mind, Myth, and Magick, sadly even T.A. Waters espouses the ridiculous notion that “fortunetellers” serve some useful purpose as affordable counseling for the poor. This is of course terribly flawed logic. There is NOTHING useful that “psychics” do that cannot be accomplished without claiming supernatural powers. And there is enormous damage “psychics” cause to individuals and society. James Randi’s proposed test for Sylvia Browne was beautiful in its simplicity. Twenty people would fill out questionnaires. The questionnaires would be shuffled and Sylvia would only have to match the questionnaires to the right people. So simple, yet no “psychic” on Earth can accomplish it. Jim/Jack claims he can remote view objects. Even though Jim/Jack NEVER bothered to APPLY for the JREF prize, James Randi told him he could pop on by the JREF headquarters. Mr. Randi said he would place an object in a locker and if Jim/Jack could name it, he would give him a million dollars. Jim/Jack, of course, in true “psychic” fashion, was unable to perform his miraculous abilities under these very simple conditions. Oh no. Jim/Jack required a much more complicated regime of “rituals” in order to perform. And of course, if all else fails, well then it’s the “negative energy” of the skeptic that somehow impedes their miraculous abilities. There’s always something that impedes their amazing powers - until, of course, the possibility of trickery is found. Then, amazingly, they can feel their powers coming back to them. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
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On 2007-09-11 13:30, HollyMental wrote: Well, now... go easy! Once again, I can fully agree on some of what has been posted above, but as usual you have this pattern in your posts - in which you seem the person who can speak for the whole world... Right? I can still agree with some of the above posts (some!) and yet, at the same time, I can fully agree with THAT "ridiculous" notion of T.A.Waters, and I'm sure many others can do the same. But not in YOUR world... I know!
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2007-09-11 13:35, Lord Of The Horses wrote: What an incredible and flawed leap in logic. Show me where I ever said I speak for the whole world. It’s an opinion, like any other. Take it any way you’d like. I have enormous respect for T.A. Waters. But I happen to believe he’s completely wrong about this issue. If you disagree, fine, state you case. But attacking me doesn’t change the validity of my opinion one bit. Try having some substance to your argument. That’s what will help you. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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Mariagi Special user MIND, MYTH & MAGICK 654 Posts |
Hollymental I do not have great feelings toward Jim Callahan but sure seem you have an axe to grind with him since a good number of your posts are attacks directed at him
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts |
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On 2007-09-11 14:26, Mariagi wrote: I apologize if it comes off that way. I only want to set the record straight. Jim/Jack regularly attacks James Randi with claims that Mr. Randi is afraid of him. I only wanted to set the record straight that Jim/Jack never applied for the JREF prize but in fact only created his own “challenge” - for which he’s unwilling to negotiate a single protocol - and expects Randi to pay him a million dollars for it, furthermore calling Randi a coward for not accepting. I have nothing personal against Jim/Jack. My problem lies with ALL “psychics” who deceive people into believing they have authentic abilities for their own personal gain, whether that gain is monetary or simply prestige. In the above post, I’m only using Jim/Jack as an example. Sorry if it came off as a personal attack on him. I don’t see it that way but if you do, I’m sorry it appears that way. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
Holly gets excited about me sometimes too...it isn't personal with J...it's philosophical.
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