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Tom Riddle
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"Why are we so concerned about what someone else is doing?"

Ashley. The only time I am concerned about what someone else is doing is when I see this ever-changing art having a negative effect on children. I believe that vulgariy in front of children, even in a mild form, is unacceptable in our art. And yes, ofcourse I consider magic an art. For me, it is the greatest of all art. I would like it to remain so.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
chris mcbrien
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To be accomplished in an art form one must respect it's foundation and disciplines.
One of the disciplines for anyone who has the honor of being asked and paid to perform for children should have the respect for that artform to know it's responsibilities.
These are the children who will hire performers for their children, and provide the paycheck for future performers.
Their parents are the ones who have the power to spread word that perhaps "things have changed" and "maybe we should hire/not hire a magician again"...and that turns into: "well, you know how THEY are".
Everthing has it's stereotype, both positive and negative.
WHY ON EARTH would you want to add to the negative stereotype?

here's something to think about: Michaelangelo's "David". It's a staue of an archetypical hero from a holy book that's revered not only as the person it represents, but the form in which the stutue is executed is exquisite and it's beauty unparalleled. The statue almost glows and thousands and thousands come every year to view it. It represents all that is beautiful and noble in man, it's fragilities and strengths.

Or: It's some nude dude on a platform with his (*(*(()) showing.

I'm betting Michaelangelo looked at it from the first standpoint and not the second.

I had heard a rumor David Kaye uses the "f" word in some of his shows now for children....is this true, or a rumor?
Either way....look at why the rumor started..it had it's foundation on the fact that he already uses foul language and material.
And once you start on a road like this, it all goes down hill.......
Dennis Michael
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It's amazing how much attention a "fart" get here for the "adults". Just imaging what attention it gets with Kids.
Dennis Michael
Tom Riddle
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That is a brilliant post, Chris. I understand that you are an art school graduate, so it is no wonder that you have great understanding of my observations.

Dennis.........You just don't get it, do you. This is nothing to do with attention getting or cheap laughs. This is all about a child experiencing great entertainment at an early age. What a child witnesses in this show could have a lasting effect on the rest of their lives. We have a responsibility to make our shows truly great. This is best served by keeping the content clean.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
danryb
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I agree,

The effect we have on children or the effect that their own beliefs have on themselves is something that should be a concern to any childrens entertainer and/or the child's parents.

I have had so many parents come up to me so many times, after my show, and tell me that they were amazed at how their kid enjoyed my show so much because they (the kid) had previous experience with other magicians and since then had disliked magicians up until now.

I can't be sure if this was due to a 'rotten magician' or posibly a rotten Mum/Dad but what I am sure about is that a kid will beleive his parents if they tell him that: if he is not a good boy - the magician will make him dissappear or turn him into a rabbit. I am also sure that if a kid see's something he doesn't like (the look, sound, taste of) he will not want to try it again for a long time to come.

If, after that time (when the kid turns into a parent himself), he attempts to hire a magician, and hopes to enjoy it - but does not, then we are in major trouble.

Their are loads of different types of acts, humor and personality but a child is a child and his/her roots stem from experiences and beliefs based on others experiences or inexperiences.

I've been in the business for 15 years and although, I admit, I have not 'made it' as big as David Kaye (aka Silly Billy) - my advice to any one starting in magic (entertaining children) would be: Do not try to 'do it' like he does it.
Not because he does not not what he is doing but rather because - HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING.

I hope to see David (for the first time) in an upcoming lecture in November. I'm sure I have a lot to learn from him (both what to do and what not to do).

The content of our show should be as entertaining as possible but no matter how clean, dirty or indifferent you try to make it - there is always going to be that 20-80 rule. It is your job to make at least 80% (or more) of your audience (kids and parents) enjoy the show, rather than have 80% (or more) not enjoy the show. I really don't know what words David Kaye is using but looking at his resume, it looks as though he is on the side that is making people want to hire magicians.

Thanks for reading,
Dani
Maestro
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Yes, I have to say, I own this book and I thought it was great. I am a little bit surprised at Tom's reaction, because I really didn't think it was vulgar at all. Although there were a few times where he made references to "stinky socks" and what not, I think that he really is trying to give performers the tools to make their own comedy, which may or may not include body-based humor.

I found his philosophy of performing magic for kids to be invaluable, and the actual jokes he uses were a little bit more secondary to me.
Dennis Michael
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Tom,
I get it loud and clear. I don't do "fart" jokes. I just can't get over the attention this is getting here in this section. The little darlings section has little on routines for magicians, plenty on what's wrong with children entertainers. Thread after thread, on what other people should not do. Tons of criticisms, but little on praise. As I said earlier "to each his own".

Let's see what we have here:

  • Don't do "Punch and Judy" because it is violent
  • Don't use a starter gun because you'll get arrested.
  • Don't use rabbits or Doves because it is againts the PETA peoples beliefs
  • Don't use the word magic because it is related to the evil time of the past (Told to me by a priest)
  • Don't blow up balloons by mouth because it spreads germs.
  • Don't use mouth coils (from mouth) because it spreads germs as well as other reasons.
  • Don't work out of a suitcase because people expect magical looking props.
  • Don't use magical props because it is to much to carry around; use only what fits in a table.
  • Don't use a steel walsh cane because it can cut someone.
  • Don't Embarass a kid
  • Don't use fire effects
  • Don't ... and the list is endless


Do what is right for you. If it works you get lots of jobs, if it doesn't you won't make money.
Most of these threads are depressing. Tomorrow we will "beat up someone else"

Dennis
Dennis Michael
AshleyW
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Quote:
On 2007-09-08 16:22, Dennis Michael wrote:
Do what is right for you. If it works you get lots of jobs, if it doesn't you won't make money.
Most of these threads are depressing. Tomorrow we will "beat up someone else"
Dennis


I agree with Dennis, you won't last long in this business if you aren't any good.
But "good" is different to a 12 year old boy than to an older adult.
Natural selection will take over and those who can't actually do, will likely end up teaching.

All I am hearing here, is jealousy on how well David Kaye is doing. That's childish.
derrick
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There is no doubt that if you never use questionable language in your shows you will never have to worry about the possibility of upsetting an attendee because you did use a questionable word.

I typically follow this rule but I don't believe that a children's magician who utters a questionable word like fart, booger, poo or snot in their show, is responsible for a universal negative stereotype. I personally think that inexperienced magicians with their eye on an easy buck using inappropriate jokes and performing uninspired, boring routines, are responsible for the negative stereotype.
NJJ
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Quote:
On 2007-09-08 10:03, Tom Riddle wrote:
"Well, she has lovely manners"

Yes she has, Nicholas. She is a wonderful lady. She has helped elevate the image many had of all Australians being scoundrels and the descendants of convicts. The motto of Winchester College is "Manners Maketh Man." I think my new motto will be "Vulgarity maketh a second rate children's entertainer".


She is a wonderful lady. Not once have I heard her say "Pull My Finger".

As the descendant of vulgar convict (sent to Oz for breaking and entering in the 1800s), I can confirm that the boat over was FULL of vulgarians with whoopee cushions under their backsides and nappies/diapers on their heads.

Once again, we must consider the different standards of vulgar. For example, Mr Riddle finds vulgar jokes about poo and wee but loves his Queen. Others may find such jokes acceptable but instead find vulgar the the excess and decadence of the unelected royals. I myself enjoy both fart jokes at the Windsor family in equal amounts.
NJJ
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Fart Jokes AND the Windsor family not Fart Jokes AT the Windsor family.

Not that the later wouldn't be amusing....
The Mighty Fool
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David says in the book that he only uses the word in very specific situations and he expressly warns against using it without knowing your audience first. Kids that age love bodiliy functions....just accept it. The grosser the better. Now I understand that you (as a children's magician) may not want to contibute to this stretch of immaturity, but you can't possibly beleive that staying away from the subject will in any way LESSEN the kids' facination with flatulence. So, if you can't eradicate it, you might as well use it to your advantage.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go pry my feet out of my big mouth....(Lord, but it's a good thing I only have two of these)
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
Dennis Michael
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There you go FOOL: "Foot in mouth" how disgusting.
Quote:
Derrick says...
There is no doubt that if you never use questionable language in your shows you will never have to worry about the possibility of upsetting an attendee because you did use a questionable word.


The challenge for professional children entertainers is to establish a show, pretty much based on Derrick's comment. Easy laughs are hard to resist. What is offensive is even harder to determine. There are those issues that offend religion, culture, race, gender, school systems, Peta people, sexual orientation, and over 15,000 other organizations covered under the American's with Disabilities act. Add in that much of comedy is related to the "mishaps" of others and other laws of other countries and that difficulty increases.

When it comes to entertaining children, it is very much harder than one believes. David Kaye's book gives a great insight on the psychology of children, as well as steering one's thinking to age appropriate material. As with any book, one must cull over the written text and filter out what one dislikes and use what one likes.

Ahhhh, the slient magician performing for an audience with music in the background, and well rehearsed... can crash and burn by opening their mouth and saying something that offends.

Being "politically correct" and "sensitive to your audience" is a "magic trick" in itself. How many course are there called, "Sensitivity Training for Magicians"? Better yet, how many would attend such a course?

Dennis
Dennis Michael
MagicSanta
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I would, Dennis, but only to pick up broads.
wizardofsorts
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I think Tom Riddle is living up to his name. He has defiantly caused a great stir among all the Wizard's of the Little Darlings selection.

Remember: TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE equals "I am Lord Voldemort"

Edd

PS- For those not in the know Lord Voldemort is the villain in the popular, and oh so vulgar, Harry Potter series. Before he changed his name, Lord Voldemort was know as Tom Marvolo Riddle.

PPS- Harry Potter says, Tosser, Bloody, 'effen, git, prat and the unclean versions of heck, and darn.
Edd Fairman, Wizard of Sorts is a corporate magician available for your next trade show, hospitality suite, client luncheon, or company event. http://www.wizardofsorts.com
MagicSanta
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So Tom Riddle is actually this Lord Voldemort fellow eh? Interesting, I thought he was fictional. Very shrewd of you Lord Voldemort.
Tom Riddle
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"I think Tom Riddle is living up to his name. He has defiantly caused a great stir among all the Wizard's of the Little Darlings selection."

Ah..........the penny has finally dropped!! I seem to have caused more of a stir by bringing up this subject than a good friend of mine who left these shores to wallow in the heat of Arizona. I understand many of his posts here were contoversial, to say the least! This gentleman, who was one of England's finest children's entertainers, is sadly missed.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
MagicSanta
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Ali Bongo lives in Arizona?
Tom Riddle
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http://www.comicmagician.com/Ali_Kenton_Roger.jpg

No. But here he is with two of my friends.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
MagicSanta
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Man....I've not seen that much forehead in a photo in a long time. I take it your friend from Arizona is the one with actual skin color? How did he get the two corpses to stand up?
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