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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
This thread is for a discussion regarding the draw and allure of chair effects... it seems quite a few are coming out... I find it fascinating it is a staple in many pro's work... and hought it would be neat to discuss the cultural, psychological, entertainment etc. aspects to using a chair prediction... and why some are thought gold and others tank... (the last part I think is just due to either having or not having good framing and reason d'etre for doing chairs)...
Chairs by their very nature connote more than 1 audience participant Chairs also allow a visualization of a mental effect Chairs also have symbolic power as "possession"/"owning space"...the Chair of a department for example... a Throne.... So, let's see if anything of value comes from this thread...or will it degenerate into the usual chaos sludge within a page ? All the best Dr S
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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mesmer Inner circle 1186 Posts |
As a Stage Hypnotist Im supply with rows of chairs to be used for my subject
so rather than waste it without any valued, I started doing Chair Test that's looks like using Hypnotism/Influence up until now I havent found a CHair Test that fit in to my Stage Persona as a stage Hypnotist I also still working on my own take on Chair Test as I hate a Chair test that had a sting of Mentalism since I don't want my Audience perceived me as a Mentalist well back again to search my Holly Grail of Chair Test |
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kriskraze Special user 620 Posts |
I think the possession argument is pushing it, but the other two are spot on.
The other thing is that the chairs are regular objects and in most routines are spaced out a fair distance... so you can't switch a chair the way you can an envelope. Not that I'd ever condone an envelope. |
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Karl Miller Elite user 494 Posts |
Dr. Spektor,
One of the true values of a chair routine for me is surprise. A lot of mentalism lacks the element of surprise, and I like to incorporate at least one effect with a surprise in it within a performance. A good example of this type of chair routine is Luke Jermay's (currently unpublished) piece. As you stated, you also get a lot of audience members involved, which is always a plus. I also like the fact that the guests are using their physical being as a prop in the experiment, rather than just thinking of something or choosing an object, such as a cup or picture. This also ties into the visibility of the piece, which is a nice feature. I also hope this thread continues in this way, Dr. S. We need more threads like this, not another "How did Derren do this?" thread. Thank you for starting the discussion. -KM |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Dr. S,
I only use a chair test in my program because it fits with the theme of the show. If the demonstration is congruent with the rest of the experiments, they can be very strong and fit rather well. The problem is when chair tests are used as a "filler" and there is simply no reason for them to be there (or really, for the test to take place)! Also, I feel that having a strong routine to follow a chair test (using the chairs, but not in a chair test/routine, per se)is a must. Example: After my chair test, since I already have the chairs and participants on stage, I use this time and unique situation to perform, "Touching on Hoy". If I'm going to incorporate 4 chairs and three people, I want to get as much mileage out of the set-up as possible. I believe chair tests are "charming". They are simple and direct in effect, can be extremely entertaining in the right hands, incorporate various members from the audience and is visual enough for the rest to watch with ease (as you noted). Also, instead of being "filler material", a well thought out chair test and routine can provide the perfect segue into other bits and pieces, making the entire show more cohesive. Best, J.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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Carlos the Great Inner circle California 1234 Posts |
Quote:
If I'm going to incorporate 4 chairs and three people, I want to get as much mileage out of the set-up as possible. I am totally in agreement with you, Jerome. I have a hard time justifying the time and effort required to set up a chair prediction just to send everybody back to their seats. I can't remember who or where I heard it, but I remember somebody saying/writing something about not bringing somebody all the way on stage just to do a single thing/effect (ok, I butchered that, never mind). As a finale, there may be something to be said about doing a single effect if it ends strongly (somebody reference Luke Jermay's routine, which he used to close his show when I saw him) but I have started to have second thoughts even about that. One of the main allures, to me, was referenced by the good Dr in the first post of this thread: "Chairs also allow a visualization of a mental effect"
Cognite tute
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ThomasBerger Special user 593 Posts |
You don't need multiple people for all chair routines.
The Biss routine which I did for the last couple of years only uses 1 spec. I agree with Karl Miller above, IMO surprise is a bit part. It is also relatively uncontrived. That's why I like the Eric Mead opening tie routine too-- it has a nice visual surprise. Tom |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
This is a great post as I was just thinking about adding an effect in my performance that incorporates four or more participants on stage and was considering a chair test vs. a human phonebook-type effect again with several participants being involved to reveal the prediction. I understand that these are different effects but similar from the perspectives of having (multiple) onstage participants, being a larger physical prediction effect, and being quite interactive.
I would appreciate any thoughts, perspectives or advantages of one over the other. I too was planning on piggybacking this with the Touching On Hoy routine which I currently do. Thanks. Mindpro |
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Bill Cushman Inner circle Florida 2876 Posts |
Does anyone know who first came up with the idea of doing a chair effect? And can we come up with a better name for the genre?
What about associations with playing musical chairs as children relating to the appeal? |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Yep Bill - whenever I think of chair routines, musical chairs always pops into my mind as an association!
I could be wrong...I will look through again... but 13 steps and Corinda do not have chair routines in them.... interesting, isn't it?
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Malchat Special user The Kingdom of Croiset and Wonder 885 Posts |
Not sure if he originated the concept, but I'm pretty sure that Dutch psychic Gerard Croiset made it popular and gave it the name 'chair test', which is a literal translation from his Dutch description 'stoelenproef' (I suppose a better translation would be 'chair challenge'.)
Croiset always presented it as a genuine test condition demonstration of prescience in the 50s and many believe it was real even to this day. It was something he liked to do in front of reporters because it was so clean, fair, and 'scientific'. I haven't been able to figure out where he got the inspiration from, so if anyone is into researching this, please PM me. I suspect that his presentation was the inspiration for David Berglas who expanded on the concept in his Man, Myth, & Magic show in the 70s and the Dutch television series Opus 13 in the 80s. It was probably Berglas' multi-revelation routining of the effect that made it into a mentalism staple for those that came after him. The reason I believe it's so popular is that even novices can immediately envision how to block it on a stage - buying a chair prediction seems to be an easy way to slot a readymade high impact routine into your stage act. There is also the allure of the methods because the presentation seems to preclude gimmicks and sleights, so it's a magician-baffler and those are always more intriguing than things we can figure out from reading the description. Oh, and Derren Brown did one.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
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Mariagi Special user MIND, MYTH & MAGICK 654 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-14 08:10, Dr Spektor wrote: youre wrong:simple chair routine not called like that but is one |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Mariagi, I thought I'd be wrong - those books cover everything - can you let me know which effect it is? I glanced through again and can't find any... probably a purloined letter effect that it is staring me in the face without me seeing it
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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gabelson Inner circle conscientious observer 2137 Posts |
I do a couch effect. The blocking's easier.
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Karl Miller Elite user 494 Posts |
Dr.,
Take a peek at page 22 in Corinda. #16. -KM |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Thanks Karl! It just goes to show you 13 Steps really is the gem it is and that it should be read by everyone starting out... and even those of us who have gone a distance to return to from time to time!
Also, thanks Malchat - now I understand's Bruce Bernstein's choice for naming one of his effects the Croiset Affair (one of my favourite effects of his)
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Bruce, if so, then you would also like TARGET THOUGHT by Ted Karmilovich.
Very similar! (To be found in Magick!)
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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Patrick Redford Inner circle Michigan 1751 Posts |
One of my favorite chair routines is in Corinda. I wrote about this in my Ensconced Fundament (& Asunder) book. I believe there is even a version in Tarbell, if I recall correctly.
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
One more thing,
In my UPSILON book I briefly mention about THAT chair routine to be found in Corinda's.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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chicane Elite user New Zealand 465 Posts |
I often work places where there is no room, or it is inconvenient to set out a number of chairs. But I work two Chair Routines, one from L.O.T.H. and one based on a routine by Marc Spelmann.
I elliminate the chairs in both routines and lay out 4 computer mouse pads on the floor. This gives the spectators a spot to stand on in the Spelmann routine. In the other routine the spectators hold a coloured object because the colour is an important factor. The traditional chairs position the spectators and help focus the audience's attention. But you can do it in other ways without loosing any impact. |
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