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Eternal Order
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Profile of JamesTong
I may be wrong but I don't think so. You would notice that John is quite carefull with the management of those loads and they are not exactly on his lap.
Sir Richard
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Profile of Sir Richard
Okay, I'm throwing this out there to see what you pros think. about 26 years ago I was helping a guy out at a trade show for "Continuing Education" & a magician set up a small stand right next to me. He did all the classic sleight of hand stuff and his cups & balls really got my attention. He used leather pouches hanging from a leather belt and told me his name was "Cellini". I was inspired, went home and dived into every magic book I had to learn any type of routine. I started out with the basic move and built from there. I recently got the M. Ammar DVD's and found out how much I didn't know. Comments, ideas, etc. appreciated. SR.
"In the land of Murphy there is but ONE law!"
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Eternal Order
11213 Posts

Profile of JamesTong
Sir Richard, you happened to see one of the top pro in action.

As to maturing in the art of cups and balls magic, I would suggest you taking a look at all the threads in 'Ever So Sleightly' section of the Magic Café. This section discusses almost everything pertaining to cups and balls, among other things. And you will see many serious and passionate cups and balls performers there. Drop by, and I'll see you there.
Jay Austin
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Profile of Jay Austin
On 2007-09-27 21:36, gaddy wrote:
You know, people say "Gazzo clones" often and I wonder what that actually means. After all, Gazzo patterned his routine after Vernon, and Vernon from Mallini. Is Gazzo, ultimately, a Mallini clone?

A lot of street performance uses rude humor- it gets a good cheap laugh, you know...

And a lot of street performers do a version of the Vernon C&B routine- this does not immediately make one a "Gazzo clone".

You are exactly right about Gazzo's C&B being based on Vernon, and Vernon's from Mallini. What I was talking about is there are a lot of people doing Gazzo's act word for word and move for move. It seems that everyone wants to finish with the oranges and then a melon. They also use the majority of his jokes. Yes there are many that get the cheap laugh by being rude to their audience. However, not everyone can get away with that. It depends on your character yet so many try it anyway. I do love watching Gazzo and enjoy his show very much. All I was trying to say is there are a lot of kids out there trying to to copy him instead of developing their own style.

The one that I am working on is Paul Gertner's steel ball routine. I love his surprise ending with the ball bearing to big to fit in the cup. But before I even think about performing it, I will change the routine and patter to make it fit my style.
Jay Austin
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dallas /now live by tulsa
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Profile of owln_1
I started with mark wilsons, then tarbell, last Michael Ammar's
Bob Johnston
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Inner circle
Philadelphia, PA
1251 Posts

Profile of Bob Johnston
James Tong and others are right, the Ammar DVD.s are wonderful but not the best choice for a beginner. Ammar’s routine is a somewhat better version of Dai Vernon’s great routine. Vernon doing his routine is also shown on the Ammar DCD’s.

And, if you get tires of the wand spinning and want to look at a simple looking but mind bending routine, check out Al Schneider’s “Standard” Cups and balls routine. It is a sit down true close-up routine that the audience can get as close as they want and be mesmerizes. It looks too simple to people to be tricky.


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Profile of fortasse
Is Ammar's routine original to him or was it based on someone else's?
Bill Thompson
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Profile of Bill Thompson
Ammar's routine is based on Dai Vernon's.
"To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.
Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse
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Columbus, Ohio
871 Posts

Profile of MagiClyde
My C&B routine is a mix of two from Carroll Baker's Cups & Balls Secrets Revealed DVD. He does teach a basic set, then teaches two more, each getting slightly more advanced from the previous one. I do consider this DVD, at about $12, to be great for the beginner.

Personally, I consider the Cups & Balls to be the one routine I do that I thoroughly enjoy. There is just something about the tactile sense of the cups in my hands and the feeling of creating a magical moment making those little balls do some crazy things! Smile
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Profile of Erdnase27
I do the same as Ammar
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Profile of marty.sasaki
I heard an interview with David Williamson. He has a two cup routine and he admits that the reason he uses only two cups is that he lost one of the cups from the set.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
Dr. Eamon
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Michael Ammar's on video or dvd, the exlenation of the professors routine!!


Dr. Eamon
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Denver, CO
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Profile of disneywld
I have been performing the "Rub-a-dub-dub" routine since I was a kid. It is short, sweet and easy to do. It works for crowds big and small and I always get a fine round of applause. It's perfect for me.
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Brussels, Belgium
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Profile of gillesA4
Hi Mitch!
Working on c&b too, have you seen this? Looong way to go...
Greetings from Brussels!
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Profile of rjthomp
Mark Wilson's routine is a good place to start for a beginner. However it is kind of long--I'd suggest you eliminate at least acouple of the phases--otherwise its pretty repetitive and dull, at least in the hands of most beginners...

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Profile of JardiniMagic
Mark Wilsons then maybe Michael Ammars DVD then maybe a mix with your own along the way! of course Gene Gordons Rubb a Dubb Dubb would be perfect!
The Magical World of Jardini
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Dallas, TX
469 Posts

Profile of NurseRob
I am a beginner with C&B and use the routine in Mark Wilson's CC in Magic. I have seen the expert routines, and I will someday be a lot better. But I want to be perfect with the simple routine first, before I venture on to be mediocre in the tougher slights.
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Vancouver, Canada
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Profile of erlandish
Rather than promote a specific routine, I'd actually vote for Ammar's DVDs. There's a wide range of material in there, and you don't have to go for the advanced stuff straight away if you're not ready.
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Profile of clarissa35f
For the People that keep saying " Ammar's Routine is too hard for the beginner, start them with something simpler." It needs to be stressed Ammar's C & B DVD does not start teaching The Ammar Routine. Ammar starts with fundamentals. Wand selection, Cup selection, size of balls, materials of balls...etc...

Then he moves on to basic concepts like The Inertia move, False passes, false loads, stealing from cup, loading to cup...etc... He teaches Mark Wilson's routine as a " Super Simple Cups and balls" routine.

He then goes on to teach more advanced sleights, the reasoning behind them etc... then after that, he goes on to a more advanced routine. He devotes time to Wand Flourishes, Vanishes and Subtleties in Vol 2. He explains how to routine. The things to concider in doing the routine standing as opposed to sitting. he also teaches several opening mini - routines, several Middle segments, and several endings. He goes on to explain how to select the final load and why. Basically giving you the building blocks and teaching you how to construct your own routine.

Then he teaches his routine, Dai Vernon's routine, and even includes Dai Vernon Performing for Mark Wilson's TV Show.

Many express that Ammar's routine is too tough for a beginner. I agree. But that is not what Ammar teaches you when you begin. When I bought these DVD's I knew The Inertia Move from Mark Wilson's book. Even though I lacked any other knowledge other than some coin moves that could be transposed to C & B work, I never felt out of my depth. There was always a routine I could perform regardless of current skill level, there were always sleights to challenge me to improve, and another routine to attempt when I did improve.

It seems that a lot of the people that say " Ammar's DVD's too hard for beginners" are not entirely apprised of the format of Michael's DVD. He is an awsome teacher that explains well, he also assumes you know nothing, and builds from there.

I think a person that bought these 2 DVD's could go from complete Novice, to expert eventually without having to buy another DVD on this effect.
“Amateurs practice until they get it right.
Professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong.” <Anonymous>
"There is no such thing as magic, there is no other way that could have been done" <Whit Haydn>
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Profile of Rick11
Rafael Benatar's Cups and Balls Execution, Theory and Practice volume 3 is excellent! I studied this video and now have a very nice routine which I love. Cups and Ball is really special and holds a top spot for me in magic.

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