The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » Vanishing a finger ring and transporting it to your keyring in under 30 seconds in the cleanest way. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
wsduncan
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
3618 Posts

Profile of wsduncan
Quote:
On 2003-02-17 17:58, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
John,

Many working magicians have had very bad experiences with rings and gemstones and unhappy lenders of same.

Some have started doing the routine with a signed key.

Jon,
I'd love to hear a publication date on that. I thought it was mine...
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-01-20 19:57, vinsmagic wrote:
WernerI do ring and string and I even sent You and Steve some of my handlings for an ending. However, since I now have the Ringer this has become the final ending and the repeat as Steve describes is stronger than the first time you do it.
The Ringer is now carried with me at all times.
vinny
Vinny, I just discovered, *Ringer* doesn't use a keycase, but something not familar to be used here in DK.
That must be the reason I didn't get it when it appeared on the scene!
I'll send you a demo where Pit Hartling does the classical version doing strolling magic.
Can anything compete with the cleaness of handling?
I doubt it.
Will send off to your email-addy
3 MB, hope your provider can keep up with it. Smile
Posted: Jan 20, 2005 11:51pm
--------------------------------------------------------
One final remark re Ring Flite. Give me one method that is as clean as the original!
Explanation: Which other method enables you to show both hands empty and reach down for your backpocket with your empty hand, that never before has been near your backpocket, withdraw a keycase, snap it open and display the specs ring? Just show me one method able to do the same! It doesn't exist.

That's the reason, I still stick to the original Al Koran method without -of course- letting pop the ring up the s****e, but straight under the jacket.

Each and every method has it's flaws also the 'r**l' method, but nevertheless it is a very clean and magical handling, seen from the specs point of view.

Any other method that need ones hand to come near the keycase to attach the ring can't compete. It is that simple! Also, in any method, the ring has to 'enter' the clip first.

Here is something one could speculate about to improve. That is worth the thoughts.
Place a ring into your hand, eg. drop it into and it does attach itself safely to the clamp/clip and then doe use the 'r**l' method to transport it to the keycase.

That would be what's needed and, of course, that method should be failsafe and doesn't shoot the ring out all over the place.

Never borrow a ring with a stone ask for a weddingring and compliment re how nice and expensive it looks.

Using the *under the jacket* method, one can use ones forearm to control the fast action to some degree, so the danger, the ring will leave the clip and is shoot allover the place is minimized. You also can drop it when trying to attach it manually to the keycase. So why all the fuzz re the thread or spring is breaking?

So I simply don't understand so many performers are so happy with the substitude methods for the Ring Flite. The original to me is the best.
JMHO..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
vinsmagic
View Profile
Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
10589 Posts

Profile of vinsmagic
Werner just one point, can you show both hands empty before you do the effect? You can not because you have the gimmick in your hand and can you repeat it instantly?With Ringer you can do both of these. And thank you for sending Pit Hartling's excellent video clip.
vinny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-01-21 03:44, vinsmagic wrote:
Werner just one point, can you show both hands empty before you do the effect?

Smile Well Vinny, it depends.. Smile
One can easily start with showing both hands empty, approaching a ladyspec, shaking hands also and asking for the loan of her ring.

Whilst reaching forward to receive it with the left, the right can "fetch" the needed clamp, whilst the "gimmick" still is blocked as there is enough slag at that time. So, it depends.

So, my answer to your question is "YES" at that stage. Smile

Most other methods are depending on the clamp is attached right at the start, so "Ringer" is an exception, as is Fred Kaps's version.

Apart form what I mentioned, there are other possibilities re handling the Ring Flite.

I would for example, combine it with the ring on stick, using a version of Michael Skinner, that is NOT in his teach-in video, but actually was published once - and overlooked by most - in Genii.

It's a great and natural handling and the "load" of the extra is incredibly well covered.

After the ring has appeared on the stick and the spec takes it off to verify/has a closer look at her ring, you fetch the gimmick. So that in practice there is no problem.

I still think the greatest feature re Ring Flite is to 100% point out that one does reach for ones keycase with a totally empty hand and they have seen one never was near it before..

That actually counts much more then showing/displaying empty hands when nothing yet has happend.

Why should one display ones hand empty before anything has gone on?

A statment like "You can show your hands empty before you start" is solely usefull in magic catalogues to get people to buy the stuff. In the real world, at that stage, it means absolutely nothing.

Did Cardini show his hands empty when entering the stage to produce cardfans with "gloved" hands ?

Sometimes (or rather always) we have to try to forget to think as "magicians".

Why run when nobody is cheasing you? They are not interested in your empty hands whilst you are talking with them. Smile

So sorry Vinny, my dear friend, I'm not "trapped" by your argument.Smile Smile
BUT, producing the keycase, reaching for it with empty hands makes sense. Their ring is gone, so ones hand should be empty when reaching for it.

Is it, when using "Ringer" or most other sleight of hand methods?
I'll answer this myself:

Nope! Smile

Oh forgot..why repeat the effect?
To get catched by using those methods? Smile
Is it a puzzle or should it be magic "we" do?
That's my answer to the "repeat", again an argument for a magic catalogue.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
boxjumper
View Profile
Veteran user
355 Posts

Profile of boxjumper
I use Gaeton Bloom's Flying Ring. I think it is the most practical and reliable method around. Just In Case is also very good but I prefer Bloom's method.
niva
View Profile
Inner circle
Malta (Europe)
2950 Posts

Profile of niva
Let me trap you, Werner.

Quote:
A statment like *You can show your hands empty before you start* is solely usefull in magic catalogues to get ppl to buy the stuff..in the real world, at that stage, it means absolutely nothing..

Did Cardini show his hands empty when entering the stage to produce cardfans with *gloved* hands ?

Sometimes (or rather always) we have to try to forget to think as *magicians*...


That's a little ironic my friend. Because I feel that's just what you are doing when you say that you have to reach for the case with empty hands. That's magician's thinking. The species don't know what to expect. You could also delay the appearcance from the vanish.

With your same line of thinking no one should be doing the card to wallet, unless there is a r**l version of it. Smile

Just my thoughts.

As I said above, it has been a while now that I have been looking for a substitute to the keycase. Now I got to know about the Ringer, Ring thing and some others which all use a key rig instead. My question is this. Do these different ones differ in method? And the key ring used, is it the one where you have to drag the key all the way around to get it out?

Thanks for your help.
Yours,

Ivan
vinsmagic
View Profile
Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
10589 Posts

Profile of vinsmagic
Ok Werner I got knocked down but I am not out. I'm comming out for the 12th and final round Ringer can be done without a jacket or even be done topless, bare chested. Could you say this about ring flight? No, you can't. Ringer is totally imprmptu and can be done with no set up. And after 12 rounds winner by KO and still champion from parts unknown THE GODFATHER OF MAGIC!
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
WayneNZ
View Profile
Special user
New Zealand
959 Posts

Profile of WayneNZ
Jacketless and topless, yep no problem .
Just have the keycase in your rear pants pocket,
in fact that's where I find it works best.
S2000magician
View Profile
Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3469 Posts

Profile of S2000magician
Quote:
On 2005-01-21 15:55, vinsmagic wrote:
Ringer can be done . . . topless, bare chested.

In the interest of quality control, we really ought to have Chrystal demonstrate this for verification, with video available to members on request.

;)
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-01-21 17:05, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-01-21 15:55, vinsmagic wrote:
Ringer can be done . . . topless, bare chested.

In the interest of quality control, we really ought to have Chrystal demonstrate this for verification, with video available to members on request.

;)
Thank you Smile
I'm looking forward to this. That's what's needed to persuade me. Smile
Posted: Jan 21, 2005 5:51pm

------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------
On 2005-01-21 15:41, niva wrote:
Let me trap you, Werner.

With your same line of thinking no one should be doing the card to wallet, unless there is a r**l version of it.

------------------------------------------------------------

Now that argument I really love
Because I do the CTW the only way it should be done, the classical way, by palming the card.

Good point!
Nevertheless I stick to what I wrote re it highens the 'effect' re RingFlite to clearly show ones hand empty before going for the keycase. The reason simply is, you just have vanished their ring and they are watching you like hawks.

You have to persude them, that what you do is magic that can't be explained and it can't when you reach with your empty hand for the keycase.

The delay thing re revealing the ring is a good option and should always be used, and it can be, even when using *Ringer*., but you have to have a good reasoning/logic to go south with your hand to laod the thingy and that for reason of bringing out f.ex. a pen sign an IOU re the value of the ring or similar stuff that just does delay the effect.

It is a possibility, but it's not the straight way to go.

Don Alan used some delay too, by offering diff. objects first as a substidude for the missing ring.

Still, I've seen a couple of good performers doing the r**l version in a straight forward matter and they've been very successfull in using it.

So let's say, I prefer the classical way, but I also have to accept under certain circumstances one is able to use other methods, like *Ringer* with less effect.

To be used in short sleeves, in summertime, and in situations where there is no time for a reset, which BTW can be done fastly using a r**l too. I've some ideas re this.

Note, I mentioned *with less effect*, which doesn't mean one couldn't fool some ppl with the manual solution.

Actually I played with a such myself and you can get a cheap laugh. I used a small radio-antenna/arial to slip the ring on and that antenna went right down into the keycase. Going for it, the antenna was pushed close, or sometimes even pushed close earlier, whilst the hands where empty.

So actually my empty hand could go for the keycase anytime after the ring had run down the antenna and the hand was way off the keycase all the time.

It worked, but had it's problems. The other end of the antenna had a hook, simulating the other hooks where keys where hanging from. So I too had my fair share of trial with manual solutions and finally I used my brain and thought why improving something that just is perfect?
Posted: Jan 21, 2005 6:07pm
---------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------

On 2005-01-21 15:55, vinsmagic wrote:
Ok Werner I got knocked down but I am not out. I'm comming out for the 12th and final round Ringer can be done without a jacket or even be done topless, bare chested. Could you say this about ring flight? No you can't. Ringer is totally impromptu and can be done with no set up.
And after 12 rounds winner by KO and still chanmpion from parts unknown THE GODFATHER OF MAGIC

------------------------------------------------------

Hehehe Vinny you're great!

Doing it in short sleeves without a jacket and having the setup hanging out of your backpocket for all ppl behind to see? Walking around in a restaurant and using the no-reset option all the time, walking around there with the set-up hanging out of the backpocket?

Maybe they'll then hire another magician

Well, maybe "Ringer" hasn't the hook outside the backpocket, but in that case a load might be a bit slower when one has to go inside ones own pocket.
Hmm.
Having a jacket on covers it all. You've seen the way f.ex. Pit Hartling does vanish the ring, pure magic, no funny moves.

I too tried a lot of diff. approaches re a deceptive vanish. Like f.ex. taking the ring with the right from the spec, supposingly transfering it to the fingertips of the left all fingers pointing upwards, back of hand towards the spec, simulation the ring is held between fingers and thumb and staring at it, talking about it's difficult to see the inscription, but, no problem, I've a magnifyer and so going south, loading the ring and coming up with a magnifying glass looking and reading the peeked at inscription (with taste) through the magnifying glass.

Going towards the spec, let her look through the glass asking, "Did I get it right, can you confirm the date?" and so the ring vanished right before her eyes.
Loved the look when SHE told me there was no ring and I could act surprised.

That kind of stuff, it worked, but not clean enough for my taste I had to have an extra prop, the magnifyer with an handle on, but I so displayed, I could do sleight of hand for those magicians watching. No need for that anymore. I want to display to the specs that effect soley can be done by magic and that's why the hand never should go near the keycase and be clearly empty when grabbinbg for it.

Just a few of the thoughts behind my stubborness to use the classical method.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
vinsmagic
View Profile
Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
10589 Posts

Profile of vinsmagic
Werner Ringer can be in front pants pocket. It does not have to be hanging any where.
Steve Dusheck has been doing this for over 25 years and has never been caught. People who like the effect always ask to see it again a good magician will do it immediately there's no need to run to the bathroom and reset.
vinny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
niva
View Profile
Inner circle
Malta (Europe)
2950 Posts

Profile of niva
You are a tough one Werner. LOL

But how do you justify using a keycase? It's not something commonly used nowadays.

And can somebody answer my questions I posted above?
Yours,

Ivan
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-01-22 02:59, niva wrote:

But how do you justify using a keycase? It's not something commonly used nowadays.

Oh come on..you don't have to justify 'miracles'...

You can as well argue the same re card to wallet or card to other locations..
Keycases are still common sales-articles here in DK, as well as they are used by some people..maybe not too many, but still enough to get recognized as a common article and not a magic prop.
How to you justify an Okito box, carrying a ring-box (for the folded card in rinbox), running around with a piece of rope in your pocket, a spool of thread, whatever..
Come on..they KNOW we are crazy Smile
Posted: Jan 22, 2005 4:01am

--------------------------------------------------------------

On 2005-01-21 18:22, vinsmagic wrote:
Werner Ringer can be in front pants pocket
it does not have to be hanging any where.
Steve Dusheck has been doing this for over 25 years and has never been caught.
People who like the effect always ask to see it again a good magician will do it immeidately(sp)there's no need to run to the bathroom and reset.
vinny
---------------------------------------------------
Good point Vinny, I wish Steve would have developed a similar handling using a 'normal' keycase..the reason I not got *Ringer* when it appeared on the scene is the *keyring* used, which is not commonly known here in DK
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
niva
View Profile
Inner circle
Malta (Europe)
2950 Posts

Profile of niva
In fact I don't use those big black wallets. There are Hip style wallets now for the card in wallet.

As for the Okito. That's a prop. But a keycase is something old. You can just use a keyring. More portable. Today everything is being made more portable. Take a mobile phone for instance. It would be ridiculous to take out one of those enormous old ones during a show, unless you are doing comedy.

The key case was meant to pass by as another common day item. Now it can't, at least for me, since I am 22. In my hands it would be a prop when it can be otherwise.
Yours,

Ivan
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Quote:
On 2005-01-22 06:35, niva wrote:
But a keycase is something old.
So are the cups for the C&B !
Piet Hartling does use a keycase and he's not that old. I suppose he knows what he does. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
niva
View Profile
Inner circle
Malta (Europe)
2950 Posts

Profile of niva
Not because someone is famous we should do as he does.

And yes. I agree with you. The Cups for the cups and balls are proppish. In fact I liked David Williamson's joke about them.
Yours,

Ivan
Steve Dusheck
View Profile
New user
Hazleton, PA
46 Posts

Profile of Steve Dusheck
Werner, please stop saying my Ringer isn't as good as the key case with the reel. You have very bad manners. You can't talk like as an expert because you have never seen me perform Ringer. You have never seen a Ringer or read the many routines possible with it. Routines that can't be done with the key case and reel. As I said earlier there is no best ring to key ring trick, but there is a worst.

My best friend performs the Bloom gimmick using the Mike Close routine. That is great. The Porper/Biro trick is also a great effect. The handling used with these effects is more natural than snapping a ring into a clip between your cramped fingers just to make it vanish.

Don Alan was a very good friend of mine and a very good magician, when sitting at a table. I don't do any of the tricks he used. Fred Kaps was one of my favorites too but I don't do any of the tricks he used either. Both bought magic from me and Ken Brooke shared my letters with Fred Kaps. Just because they used specific tricks doesn't mean we must all use the same tricks. The great Bud Dietrick doesn't use the Koran reel/case. He uses his own creation called Chain Reaction. What could be more innocent and ordinary than a simple key chain? I do not judge tricks by the magicians who perform them. I judge tricks by the audible reactions of the audiences when I perform them.

The keyring I make is a standard keyring. I bought the original one at K-mart. The style is probably the most common in the US. I have sold a lot of them all over the world and, in 25 years, have never had a magician complain about the style of the keyring and the fob attached to it. Does everyone in Denmark use a leather case to hold their keys?

If the reel version was so good there wouldn't be so many other versions available. Most magicians find the one, non-reel, method that fits their personality and skill level and use that.

You said to only borrow a wedding band. Many people here cannot remove their wedding bands after several years of married life. Others believe it is bad luck to remove it. A lot of men don't wear rings. When performing table magic in restaurants you must take what you can get. The lady with the biggest diamond will usually lend you her ring because she wants to make sure everyone at the table saw it. When you do get a man's ring it is often very big. Too big to fit onto the small clip attached to the reel. Some of the tiny rings women lend you are too fragile to squeeze into the clip. I made my gimmick to handle any ring size.

My trick, that you belittle, goes over very well. There is a gasp of amazement, the occasional "Oh, my gawd." and someone says "Do it again."

What do you do when you are asked to do a trick a second time? Do you say "I can't because you might catch me."? The customer is always right so I do repeat the trick while telling them why I can't repeat it. When the ring is seen on the key ring again the effect is twice as strong.

The management at a local resort complained to our agent about a magician resetting his tricks before going to another table. The agent said we are hired to perform magic, not to stand in the corner resetting tricks. If your tricks are not instantly repeatable, you are not cost effective. Reset time is very important when the management limits your time per table to 6 or 8 minutes.

You claimed that doing it a second time means the audience will figure out how I did it. That is because you never saw it performed. When you are hired to do strolling magic at a party, there are always 2 or 3 people who follow you around because they enjoy the magic and because they want to figure out how you are doing it. I only perform tricks that can be repeated for the same audience while still fooling them.
I do not advertise Ringer. When magicians request information about it they are warned not to buy it unless the are working magicians. I didn't make it to sell and make money. I made it for my own use. I have had just about every version put out and have found my version the best for me. A lot of other, well known, magicians feel the same way. I do not take advantage of my famous customers by using their names to get additional sales.

Before you decided to find fault with Ringer you were finding fault with The Final Answer. That's another trick you do not have but write as an expert about. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but don't make comments about me or the magic I invent and perform since you are not an expert in that field.
Steve Dusheck
niva
View Profile
Inner circle
Malta (Europe)
2950 Posts

Profile of niva
Steve, can you please answer my question? Is the keyring the one where you have to drag the key all around to get it out? Or can I see a pic please, because I cannot understand what fob means? Thanks.
Yours,

Ivan
Werner G. Seitz
View Profile
Inner circle
3131 Posts

Profile of Werner G. Seitz
Steve please don't get annoyed.

I value your work and I know of many "tricks" you've invented and which I like very much.

My posting wasn't at all about telling anybody your "Ringer" is bad!

I'll not take part anymore re telling my opinion here re the Ring Flite, but I will point out 2 things that where the reason I posted as I did and the "why" I do prefer the classical method.

1. Any method to attach a ring to either a keycase or another keyholder by going south with the guilty hand to attach the ring "I" try to avoid.

2. Especially re a keyring -used in "Ringer" - I have to state, that a keyring is NOT very common in that part of Europe I live.

That about does frame the "why" of my firm opinion.
I have mine, others have theirs. They did let me know. I did let them know mine.

That's actually all that it is about.

Don't mix TFA with "ringer". re TFA, so many people like it, so why bother I don't?

Apart from this, there are a few others that neither are in favour of it, at least not at it's price, which wasn't my argument, but is John M.'s.

So please forgive me, my opinion was re the principle of handling the ring flite and not about your product, it was just mentioned by some (nice) guys including Vinny and it is OK with me they like it.

It is the principle of going south with the guilty hand compared to the cleaness of the original handling that I dislike, and that doesn't soley go for the "Ringer", but for a lot of other similar products using the 'manual' method.

So, please don't be annoyed. Your products have always been great and well thought out, let's just say in this case I dislike the "going south" principle.

Have a nice Sunday and safe the time re speculating about my opinion, there are more people liking that product then disliking. So why care? It's just "my" opinion and I've explain the "why".
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Socrates
View Profile
Regular user
170 Posts

Profile of Socrates
Greetings!

I always thought a Thumb Tip was pretty groovy!

Socrates

'Simplify!' - Henry David Thoreau Smile
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » Vanishing a finger ring and transporting it to your keyring in under 30 seconds in the cleanest way. (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.41 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL