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Chris K
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Quote:
On 2007-10-25 21:33, Slim King wrote:
Lot's of Armchair Quarterbacking by those who are not playing the game. The first quarter isn't even over yet. Hide and watch......


It's your opinion but, to me, it just seems like armchair quarterbacking by those who act like they don't have an opinion. It's ok to have an opinion, Slim, what you wrote above is exactly that. Now, for you to say that it is okay to have an opinion of, say, posts on a board but not mentalism on national TV seems a bit disingenuous. Actually, not a "bit" but totally and completely disingenuous to the point of hypocrisy.

But that is just my opinion. I guess I am just armchair quarterbacking about what you said... that is meant in fun, btw, just to be clear.

Mr. Osterlind,

It is fair and therein lies the problem. Shock television is what sells, and using Angel and Geller to rate the performers has both an American Idol and Masked Magician kind of feel to it. They don't want fair, which is really too bad.
Anti-intellectualism has been nurtured by the false notion that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."-Isaac Asimov
Tony Iacoviello
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It would be an entertaining program for magicians and mentalists, not for the general public. And the only one with anything to gain in that scenario (sorry to say) is Richard.

The concept that Phenomenon brings is good, but it lacks in execution. The performers are handicapped due to the restraints placed on them. It would be better if each was allowed to perform a set in front of a live audience, with the camera as a member of the audience. Have two or three performances each week with the at home and studio audiences voting. After the first 3 weeks, we would be down to the 3 finalists. This provides better entertainment for the audience, a better showcase for the performers, a better indication of their performance capabilities, and a more interesting and cohesive program.

Tony
magic4545
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Okay, after seeing the show finally, I would like to say that the general descriptions of Criss Angel's behavior were a bit overstated. I think that he was trying to do a job, and, although I disagree with him, I think that he was trying to be constructive, and his ego slipped out a bit here and there, but it wasn't as 'ugly' as I expected it to be.

I feel that the show would have been better with a situation like the "So you think you can dance" format, where they showed the behind the scenes material. Letting the performers show who they were consulting with, who they were brainstorming with, showing the researching and second-guessing about material, showing conflicts that we have with whether we should be closed-eye or more about this being 'just tricks.' Let Criss go around and consult and help the acts with their pieces, to show the true power of grace, instead of the image that is coming across to many of you.

I feel that there is huge conflict and drama that was really overlooked in favor of a studio production that, quite frankly, fell pretty flat. At least flatter than it could have been. I feel that they should have shown more of the background from the auditions and rehearsals, to give a feeling of what goes on in the trenches of a TV reality show featuring magician/mentalists.

The teardrops and the pity stories were absolutely unappealing. WAAAAAAY too contrived and distracting from the important factors.

The catfighting and interaction between characters would have been much more effective with several mentalists rooming together between rehearsals, and arguing over who was going to get to do the roulettes, who gets the booktests, who gets the metal bending, touches, etc. Let the audience in on the major facets of our art, without giving away the secrets. Letting them know that there are several 'methods' or presentations for these different cornerstones, and that there are people all over the country who can come to their events and present this material live, in their own homes.

This would have been good for everyone, including the people on the show, not just the ratings. But, I feel that this would have helped the ratings.

But, hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who's never had a day job, and survived for decades without huge advertising and self-promotion. I'm just a professional entertainer, working off of word of mouth, in a very competitive business that usually favors the hypesters... I have no say in stuff like this.

Oh, and do I think that quicker, more direct pieces would have more of an effect on the MTV generation of viewers? Absolutely. Do I think that my material would have worked better than what they ended up having on the show so far? Absolutely, even the casting directors told me that. Emphatically. They just couldn't sell the executives on my inclusion, due to some unrelated issues. Some of you are aware of the issues, and all seem to agree that I got a raw deal. But, now I'm not feeling so bad about it.
Slim King
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I am sorry for Jimmy's RAW DEAL, but everything happens for a reason (If you believe in my version of the Supernatural) ...so maybe it was for the best. I also felt that my performances would have been untraceable (sp) and unique to the show... But NOOOOOOOOO Smile (And YES,I would have liked to have been on the show)
No sour grapes here. I'm OK with what's happening, but I felt it could have been avoided.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Philemon Vanderbeck
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If I had been chosen, I don't think I would have received the "character definition" criticism that the first four contestants received...

:devilish:
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
Tony Iacoviello
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No, you wouldn't. LOL

Did anyone else catch the rebroadcast last night on the SCIFI channel?
Chris K
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No, thanks for mentioning that Tony.
Anti-intellectualism has been nurtured by the false notion that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."-Isaac Asimov
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 14:06, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
If I had been chosen, I don't think I would have received the "character definition" criticism that the first four contestants received...

:devilish:


Sure you would as you know as well as I that your character has no character.

BTW Philemon I just got my Cirque tickets! Front row too!
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Arnon
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On 2007-10-26 11:18, Dannydoyle wrote:
***
(To Richard Osterlind)
Your question was, "Is that fair?".

The answer is absolutly not.

You are a far better entertainer than either one of them or both combined for that matter.

IF you let them combine their scores you are now getting to "fair". LOL. From a bookie standpoint that is.


Nick the Greek still gives it to Richard "5 to 1" even with Angel/Geller's combined scoring.

If you want "fair," go to Pomona. If you want "art," go to the Louvre. Smile On television, it's all about sponsors, time slots, and ratings.
Silvertongue
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Surely television is about entertainment, if you frame it in the same context as ' fair' and ' art '.... what you just said makes no sense...
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence,
For that long, may I too remain,
to dispel the sufferings of the world.
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RileyG
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 14:38, Silvertongue wrote:
Surely television is about entertainment, if you frame it in the same context as ' fair' and ' art '.... what you just said makes no sense...


Regular Television is about selling you bad products with a little entertainment in between commercials.
Signed,
Riley G Matthews Jr
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Silvertongue
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But that's not why the viewing public watches t.v. like they go to the louvre for art and pomona for the fair they go to the t.v. for many reason but the main reason being entertainment.
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence,
For that long, may I too remain,
to dispel the sufferings of the world.
-Shantideva

Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva
ralphwaldoemerson
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Danny, I meant no disrespect to Richard. Obviously I don't't know what was said to him. I didn't get the sense that he was claiming to have any particular guarantee that he would have been a contestant. Only that he had been approached about the show and had strong opinions about the way it was formatted. Personally I think he is tremendously talented, and I like his ideas.

My statement was based on the fact that I and nearly every pro that I know were repeatedly called about this, and the consistent implication was that we were being offered a slot. In every case I know, the reality turned out to be that we were being asked to submit for consideration. My opinion is hardly uninformed.

If you claim to know for a fact that some people were offered guaranteed slots as contestants, I would have to say I doubt their stories. If they were offered participation in other capacities, I'd find that more likely.

Feel free to PM me with the names of the people to whom you refer.

I stand by my opinion that nobody who opted out of this thing could know for certain that they would have ended up a contestant, myself included. I also don't believe the rumors that this thing is rigged. I've heard so many rumors, some of them contradicting each other, only to have them debunked by people involved in the production, that I'm doubtful of anything I haven't heard directly from either contestants or production staff.

In any case, the point of my post was to give props to the contestants.
tboehnlein
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"The catfighting and interaction between characters would have been much more effective with several mentalists rooming together between rehearsals, and arguing over who was going to get to do the roulettes, who gets the booktests, who gets the metal bending, touches, etc. Let the audience in on the major facets of our art, without giving away the secrets"
The viewing public wouldn't give a rat's rear about who was getting to do what routine & all this would have done was made the showing go from perhaps boring to "Big Brother" trash without the BB ratings.
Garrad
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Is there anywhere or way that us brits can get to watch these? Have they been posted online yet?
I'd love a chance to see these artist's at work
You might say reality is the result of complex negotiations between the observer and the observed. But that is simply a point of view.


Many Thanks
Garrad
Chris K
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I really don't think you do, Garrad, lol.
Anti-intellectualism has been nurtured by the false notion that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."-Isaac Asimov
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 15:17, Garrad wrote:
Is there anywhere or way that us brits can get to watch these? Have they been posted online yet?
I'd love a chance to see these artist's at work


You're lucky we had to sit through 30 minutes to see these two short acts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cjfMy25BfA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GdpNbQ6T4E

Best,

Tim
Vanian
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 11:41, videokideo wrote:


Criss Angel doing 30 minutes live on stage without the aid of stooges, setup audience or camera edits....LOL.

.... and the little men in spandex come dancing out to save the day!

Richard, Id just assume watch a full one hour special of your material.. and feel free to give Angel a front row seat as he might learn a thing or two.


But seriously..Richard... ive always wanted to ask a person of your status this question, and I understand if you are two busy to answer. But how do feel watching a Criss Angel show, knowing that 75% of what he does involves setup audiences and camera edits, and then see a person like Banachek in the background helping him succeed in these plays. As a semi-pro, it ticks me off. But from someone of your credibility, I wonder how you feel about someone like Banachek doing what he is doing in that show. I would assume you pros would rather see someone with a true talent that was earned by practice and hard work like yourself rather than some guy who all in one year becomes huge without having much true talent... and if he does have any, is affraid to use it properly.

I compare Angel to Britney Spears often... neither really worked for what they earned... Angel lipsyncs magic.

On a final note.. thanks for the tons of material and dvds you have provided us. And thanks for taking the time to speak with us on these boards. Your post was the highlight of my week!


To videokideo: You know, I just got to say, though I personally don't like Criss Angel, mostly for his attitude and arrogance, and I definitely don't like to be the one to have to defend him, I think your constant attacks are a bit unfair. It's one thing to have a personal opinion about him, but at least be fair about it and do a bit of research before going on and on about how he "lip-syncs" magic or he can't do what he does live onstage...

Before his Mindfreak TV show, it was his Mindfreak Broadway show (live on stage with about 300 performances if I remember correctly) and before that, 600 performances live at the "World" theater in New York. And even before that, back in the 1990s he was performing at Madison Square Garden as part of the "World of Illusion" and doing magic as part of his industrial band Angeldust when I first saw him, which, being both a musician and magician myself, I just thought was kind of silly to have this serious industrial band and then to all of a sudden do Pendragon style magic in the middle of a song (though he tried to gore it up a bit to fit the style of the music.) So, yes, Criss Angel is actually a seasoned veteran in magic years before you saw him on his TV show.

Like Copperfield, Criss has been performing magic professionally since his teens but now, like Steven Segal, though he does have the skills to back it up, his arrogance has made people believe he's a fraud. But he really isn't. Why else would ALL of these respected veteran magicians be on his payroll... it can't JUST be about the money.

So if you don't like him, that's fine, I don't either, but get off your high horse with this "Angel can't do real magic" crap... I've never seen so much professional jealousy from the lot of you. We should all be thanking people like David Blaine and Criss Angel; they've brought magic back into the spotlight and made it cool to be a magician again and it's given us all the opportunity to work more... and if for some reason you aren't getting more work or praise from what you do, don't blame Criss Angel, blame yourself for not stepping up your game!

Sorry for the rant here, it's just that I'm excited by what has been happening with Magic the last few years and the potential to finally get it out of the realm of cheesy tuxedoed penguins doing their dove work. Not since when I first saw Doug Henning have I thought "yeah, magic is cool again and I'm proud to be part of it." Maybe if we spent less time criticizing the ones that have become successful legitimately and more time improving our own performances, we will be able to contribute and elevate the art even further.
ALEXANDRE
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I still want to see Criss Angel's stage show. I've heard all these years that's his forte, television aside.
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 15:48, genshi wrote:

I've never seen so much professional jealousy from the lot of you.


I don't think anyone has ever criticized the live stuff Criss did before MindFreak but please don't call the CGI show something to be jealous of artistically. All Criss did with MindFreak was out-Blaine Blaine. Someone with a larger budget could easily out Angel Angel just like other Hollywood productions that top the one before them. I think the Britney Spears shoe fits.

BTW....Now THIS is something to envy and applaud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD20ldvwdYc

Best,

Tim
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