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Vanian
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 15:58, Timothy Drake wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 15:48, genshi wrote:

I've never seen so much professional jealousy from the lot of you.


I don't think anyone has ever criticized the live stuff Criss did before MindFreak but please don't call the CGI show something to be jealous of artistically. All Criss did with MindFreak was out-Blaine Blaine. Someone with a larger budget could easily out Angel Angel just like other Hollywood productions that top the one before them. I think the Britney Spears shoe fits.

BTW....Now THIS is something to envy and applaud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD20ldvwdYc

Best,

Tim


Actually, yes, a couple of people (specifically videokideo) are implying that Criss Angel can't do this stuff live.

Though he does use quite a bit of camera tricks, it's not as much as people think. Certainly no more than Copperfield's TV specials. There was one trick he did that I could have sworn had to be a camera edit, but I studied it over and over again and saw nothing (I used to work in film Post Production so I can spot these things) so I concluded the only other way to do it was by another age old method, but it would have been much easier to do it with a camera edit... sure enough, he did do it the traditional way as he admitted to it on Penn Jillette's radio show.

So I think there is a lot of stuff that we may assume is all camera tricks but is not, though I agree there is till quite a bit that are and I do agree that he is just trying to out Blaine Blaine, but the Brittany comparison is WAY off. She is a complete fraud and music industry puppet where as Criss, at least, has been in control of everything he has done and has put the work and his own skills into it.
Joshua Lozoff
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On 2007-10-26 00:13, Candini wrote:
...but I really did not think he was over critical of anyone like CA was. Perhaps CA will tame down somewhat for next week.


Oh, I hope he doesn't "tame down." I thought Criss' critiques were the best thing about the show. I thought he was fair, honest and showed a love for his art. It's actually the most I've ever respected him. It wasn't too cool to mention the name "PK Touches," but other than that, I sure hope he won't allow Uri's over-praise to shame him into softening his judgement.
Joshua Lozoff

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Tony Iacoviello
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I stand by my comments at NBC.COM
Quote:
Criss Angel critiquing mentalism would be like Ron Jeremy critiquing Shakespearian Theater. It might be entertaining to watch, but it is meaningless drivel and an insult to all involved.

Of course this is just my opnion. I do feel the Criss is excellent in his stage performance as a magician, but there are many differences between what he does and what those people whom he is critiquing on the show do.


Tony
The Drake
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Not to derail the thread....

The CGI stuff drives me NUTS! but I was all behind Criss in his appraisal of the performances. He is qualified. Not that I agree with all he said but I respect his right to have an opinion and to act as a judge of sorts. He was doing his job why Uri was Uri..too bad. LOL Criss did LOSE me big time with the " I did it bigger and better" stuff.

Best,

Tim
Tony Iacoviello
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Tim

I disagree with you 100% on him and his qualification to judge a mentalism performance. As a magician, he is looking for, what he himself uses to structure a routine and performance. It is not the same.

Ron Jeremy is an actor, and at the top of his field, but I would not want him critiquing Anthony Hopkins.

Tony
DJM
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If Criss was a paticipant on the show he would win it for sure.. Especially since he would bring his mom and brothter as part of the celebs.
Garrad
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Thank you for the links Tim, you are a gentleman.
You might say reality is the result of complex negotiations between the observer and the observed. But that is simply a point of view.


Many Thanks
Garrad
Tony Iacoviello
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He would not participate in a show like this, no need to. He already did it two weeks ago on his show.
Vanian
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This from Mr. Iacoviello is very well put and sums it up the best.

Quote:
On 2007-10-26 16:24, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
I stand by my comments at NBC.COM
Quote:
Criss Angel critiquing mentalism would be like Ron Jeremy critiquing Shakespearian Theater. It might be entertaining to watch, but it is meaningless drivel and an insult to all involved.

Of course this is just my opnion. I do feel the Criss is excellent in his stage performance as a magician, but there are many differences between what he does and what those people whom he is critiquing on the show do.


Tony


One thing in regards to this Phenomenon show, I too was bit disappointed by the performances themselves. The whole point of the show was to find the absolute best of the best, cream of the crop and right off the bat the first performer does a tired old PK Touch routine that I performed better a year ago, impromptu at my day job (and yes, that was risky, but I knew I could pull it off.) The excuses that they only have 3 minutes and no time to build rapport is simply not a good enough excuse in my opinion. People like Derren Brown or Luke Jermay would have been able to jump up there and knock it out of the park so the rest of these guys really need to step it up.

Earlier on in the thread (or another thread?) I heard some of you saying "Yeah, so in so is doing his same old bear trap routine", or "what's his name is doing his usual book test" and this is my point exactly. It's all "been there, done that". Though I have never seen him, I look forward to seeing what Jim Callahan does because, from what it sounds like, even if he fails, he's trying something that he hasn't done before and the build up on these forums to it has me on the edge of my seat already!
DJM
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Criss said on the show that Ross from Karol's routine was incredibly funny.. just goes to show he doesn't know what he's talking about.
DJM
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Genshi, maybe those tricks are old to you, but totaly new to many of the viewers and audience members. Mentalism is not that common on America TV.
Vanian
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Quote:
On 2007-10-26 16:48, DJM wrote:
Genshi, maybe those tricks are old to you, but totaly new to many of the viewers and audience members. Mentalism is not that common on America TV.


True, maybe, but did it blow any of YOU away? And from what I'm hearing all over the place, did it blow any layman away? It may have back in the 1970s but we are living in a totally different time.

People expect (unfortunately) much more, quicker, bigger and badder. It's no longer the MTV generation or even the Jack*ss generation, it's the instant gratification Youtube generation and reality is what it's about. David Blaine to Derren Brown also do may traditional tricks, but they dress it up in away that fits with "today" and these guys on Phenomenon just didn't seem to have pulled that of yet.

It's like how TV shows in the 1950's were so sugar coated, like Leave it to Beaver, I Love Lucy, but then compare that to controversial TV shows of the 1970's where they dealt with racism (All In the Family) and homosexuality (Soap) but now those shows are considered extremely tame by today's standards... yet many (not all) magicians and mentalists are still playing to a 1970's audience I feel.

Just my opinion and I may be off.
ALEXANDRE
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[quote]On 2007-10-26 16:22, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
Quote:

Oh, I hope he doesn't "tame down." I thought Criss' critiques were the best thing about the show. I thought he was fair, honest and showed a love for his art. It's actually the most I've ever respected him. It wasn't too cool to mention the name "PK Touches," but other than that, I sure hope he won't allow Uri's over-praise to shame him into softening his judgement.


Love for his art? Borderline exposure? The performers weren't trying to bilk money from a sick old lady, these were mentalists who Criss attempted to reduce to scraps in his presence turning something that could've been magical into mere silly tricks he could do bigger and better. He's quickly becoming a friend of the mentalist-hating, secret hunting punks out there.

You've got to be kidding.

I'm 100% against anyone trying to debunk an entertainer. There's a line there that performers, entertainers usually don't cross, and if I want to go onstage or on TV in character and say I'm an alien from a distant planet who the hell are you to debunk me?

If I'm not claiming to heal sick people because I'm an alien from a distant planet and instead all I do is entertain, in person on tv or on stage with my abilities I should be able to do so without having someone wanting to debunk what does not need to be debunked ... my performance.
davybabybrazil
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Well said Alexandre. Bem feito!
It is hard to believe a man is telling you the truth if you know that if you were in his situation you would be lying.
Alex Linian
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Just watched it. What a good show to learn from; it highlights everything that is wrong with magic as an art today.

Angel's show does that as well. Such great TV for magicians.

I hope next weeks performances are better. Until then I want the girl to win cause she's hot.
salsa_dancer
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It has certainly given people something to talk about on here. I wonder if that can be considered a success? At least it has slowed the barrage of Dynamike-filled threads.

I remember the good old days when all the threads were about Derren Brown, loads of people had a go at J ack and J im, and everyone argued about whether magicians were the same as mentalists. Sigh...
Slim King
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I think that the projections were that 5 million would be watching...It seems they actually got a few million more than that...Hmmmmmmm?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
ALEXANDRE
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I have a personal update:

I watched Phenomenon again just now, forwarding some parts (DVR).

I think the hype got to me. I don't know what I was expecting, but I suppose I was expecting miracles to occur on my TV even though I liked the performances in general the first time.

I liked the Ehud and Gerry performance even more this second time. I understood better what they were going for and felt the constraint of time on both performances. It seems they did the best they could under the circumstances

Criss Angel didn't seem so harsh this second time around, still ME ME ME, but not as horribly harsh. Perhaps I have let my online reading influence me some.

Since the show aired, I have spoken to a number of other friends in my sphere of influence who saw the show. Most told me they liked it (naturally some performers more than others) and actually voted.

The people I had over my house didn't vote and felt bored. Maybe I didn't order the right food or serve the right drinks during the show.

I promise to make that up on Halloween.
videokideo
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Don't forget:

America's Psychic Challenge tonight on Lifetime, 10/9 C, where psychics vs psychics in competition. The challenge is just beginning. I am hoping an effect I use called From Hell will be used. Perhaps a new version of PK Touches also with no preshow.
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