We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Phenomenon » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..12..21..30..39..44~45~46~47~48~49 [Next]
DJM
View Profile
Inner circle
Israel
1681 Posts

Profile of DJM
I believe that the reason Criss mentioned the PK Touches and its creator was that the viewers would know it's all just a magic trick rather than a paranormal event. But of coruse did it in his own selfish way.
Arnon
View Profile
Inner circle
1320 Posts

Profile of Arnon
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 19:51, DJM wrote:
I believe that the reason Criss mentioned the PK Touches and its creator was that the viewers would know it's all just a magic trick rather than a paranormal event. But of coruse did it in his own selfish way.


If that was CA's motivation, then in my opinion:

1) The show should have a "lite" disclaimer, written on the screen only (no audio), to the effect that "None of the performances are claimed to be more than entertainment, nor are they intended to foster beliefs in the supernatural;" and

2) CA should then feel free to refrain from commenting on any methods, and stick solely to the overall performance aspects.

What do you think of my suggestion/solution to this one problem aspect of the show?

Arnon
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2495 Posts

Profile of Chris K
It's a good approach but the best is probably exactly what they have, nothing. (BEST relative to disclaimer, not CA's actions)

I would, personally, prefer it except that I am not 100% sure that the disclaimer would be correct, especially with a paranormalist on the show (who I am a fan of, so don't anybody read anything sinister there).

I think CA had no need to refer to SPECIFICS like he did, no matter what. He could have merely said "that is a common effect in mentalism, I pay money to hang out with one of the guys who revolutionized it, you aren't him (or whatever his snide comment was)".

Good try, Arnon, but it also seems you used it to try to push your personal beliefs. Still, good idea but I don't think it would work.
Mick Ayres
View Profile
Special user
Hilton Head Island
998 Posts

Profile of Mick Ayres
"Theatre is life. Film is art. Television is furniture."

Best,
Mick
THE FIVE OBLIGATIONS OF CONJURING: Study. Practice. Script. Rehearse. Perform. Drop one and you're done.
Vanian
View Profile
Regular user
Pasadena, CA - Portland, OR
137 Posts

Profile of Vanian
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 20:14, Lemniscate wrote:
It's a good approach but the best is probably exactly what they have, nothing. (BEST relative to disclaimer, not CA's actions)

I would, personally, prefer it except that I am not 100% sure that the disclaimer would be correct, especially with a paranormalist on the show (who I am a fan of, so don't anybody read anything sinister there).

I think CA had no need to refer to SPECIFICS like he did, no matter what. He could have merely said "that is a common effect in mentalism, I pay money to hang out with one of the guys who revolutionized it, you aren't him (or whatever his snide comment was)".



Come on, it wasn't that snide. He talked about how the performer didn't seem committed to his performance, then he simply said "Your PK Touch routine, as a magician, was average, I'm also good friends and work with Banachek who is one of the creators of that concept..." and went on to say that the performer just needs to raise the bar a bit. That's it.

I know we all dislike Angel's posturing, but let's not also put words in his mouth (or assumed words as many of you have done over and over and over.) You guys really are projecting WAY too much onto Criss Angel...
brainchild
View Profile
Loyal user
Ideological Bigot
259 Posts

Profile of brainchild
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 20:14, Lemniscate wrote:
I would, personally, prefer it except that I am not 100% sure that the disclaimer would be correct, especially with a paranormalist on the show


Huh? Can you elaborate exactly what you mean here Lemniscate?

Arnon, I am suprised and a little shocked there is no disclaimer. I didn't really scan the credits as well as I should've and forgot to TIVO the episode. Legally, I'm actually very suprised. Doesn't make sense. Someone really dropped the ball if that is the case. I smell a lawsuit!

My feeling on disclaimers is that they generally due to opposite of what they are supposed to do. Instead of making it seem fake, they just make it seem more real.

For instance the MTV show Jackass, which had a big huge don't try this at home disclaimer at the top of the show, that just made kids at home want to try it that much more. I think its true with the John Edward and Sylvia Brownes of the world as well whos television programs do carry a disclaimer. As much as we want to inform people that its entertainment, people will believe what they want to believe.
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2495 Posts

Profile of Chris K
Actually, brainchild, I tivo-ed it but I don't know if there was a disclaimer or not, to be honest. I don't remember seeing one but that pretty much doesn't mean anything, lol.

What I was getting at, poorly, is that I am not sure such a disclaimer would actually be true. Do all of the performers "claim to be nothing more than entertainment, etc"? Not sure they do or that they would approve of such a disclaimer.

Arnon might be better to ask about the legal stuff but I don't see disclaimers on religious shows where they do, in fact, "foster beliefs in the supernatural". Not sure that is a lawsuit worthy offense. If it is, maybe we should all (if you are not already) convert to some religion, then become atheists and sue. Again, I just don't see it though.
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2495 Posts

Profile of Chris K
On 2007-10-26 20:23, genshi wrote:
Quote:
Come on, it wasn't that snide.


It wasn't "that" snide? So it was snide? Or it wasn't? It's one way or the other, here, and it seems you disagreed with one word (which put NOTHING in his mouth, feel free to quote me if I put words in his mouth... oh wait, I didn't). No wait, you agreed with it... what did you mean anyway? was it or wasn't it snide? was it snide but not that snide? Seems pretty arbitrary to say it isn't THAT snide. But I don't know. I guess, in the end, your comment doesn't seem THAT ridiculous. Or does it...

I was going to post the definition here and show how even what you wrote qualified as snide but what is the point, really?
brainchild
View Profile
Loyal user
Ideological Bigot
259 Posts

Profile of brainchild
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 20:42, Lemniscate wrote:
Not sure that is a lawsuit worthy offense. If it is, maybe we should all (if you are not already) convert to some religion, then become atheists and sue. Again, I just don't see it though.


Ahh...if being an atheist in this country meant we had as much power and rights as being a christian, we could sue. But that is for another thread..
Vanian
View Profile
Regular user
Pasadena, CA - Portland, OR
137 Posts

Profile of Vanian
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 20:45, Lemniscate wrote:
On 2007-10-26 20:23, genshi wrote:
Quote:
Come on, it wasn't that snide.


It wasn't "that" snide? So it was snide? Or it wasn't? It's one way or the other, here, and it seems you disagreed with one word (which put NOTHING in his mouth, feel free to quote me if I put words in his mouth... oh wait, I didn't). No wait, you agreed with it... what did you mean anyway? was it or wasn't it snide? was it snide but not that snide? Seems pretty arbitrary to say it isn't THAT snide. But I don't know. I guess, in the end, your comment doesn't seem THAT ridiculous. Or does it...

I was going to post the definition here and show how even what you wrote qualified as snide but what is the point, really?


Man, get a grip, why are you so worked up!? No, to me it wasn't snide AT ALL. Not that particular comment he made to that performer. Why don't you watch the program again objectively and without bias and then tell me exactly how what I quoted was snide. Seemed more like constructive criticism to me. I'll admit, he seemed snide with the nailgun guy when he mentioned how he himself did that routine, but with a real gun. Yes, that was definitely a dig at the performer that was uncalled for.

And yes, your comment "you aren't him (or whatever his snide comment was)" implied that's what he said or would have said. But he didn't,he simply said he that the perform needs to own his performance and really commit to it. Seemed pretty constructive (in that particular case) to me.
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10577 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
In the end, Criss is certainly a Phenomenon.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2495 Posts

Profile of Chris K
Quote:
On another note, if the atheists in this country weren't oppressed, they could probably sue and win. But that is for another thread..


I was so totally going to write that, but I was going to add something about the "accepted" religions in the country getting special treatment.

I know the psychic shows do but I honestly believe there is no difference between phenomenon, John Edward, and evangelist shows. It's my worldview and I admit it, so, to me, it just seems arbitrary. Again, a post for another thread, you sucked me in, LOL!

Hmm, should say something about Phenomenon... uh, still really looking forward to Jim. JIM'S DA MAN!
brainchild
View Profile
Loyal user
Ideological Bigot
259 Posts

Profile of brainchild
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 20:57, Lemniscate wrote:
I know the psychic shows do but I honestly believe there is no difference between phenomenon, John Edward, and evangelist shows.


I completely agree. 100%.

The only thing that separates any of them, in my opinion, is really just semantics.
Arnon
View Profile
Inner circle
1320 Posts

Profile of Arnon
Members,

What I am finding myself proposing is that:

We collectively agree on solutions to the problems on the show, and then put together a united statement of our proposals to NBC.

Perhaps first clearing it through the performers themselves might be wise.

What do y'all think?

Arnon
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10577 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
I think, Arnon, that this shoe is a lead balloon - a Hindenburg... maybe some people like Jim and Angela will get to ride the explosion into the stratosphere...

Personally, I would be happy to create a new show and market it to a different broadcaster.

The show's structure is fatally flawed in so many ways, it deserves euthenasia...

The key is to create MYSTERY and ENGAGEMENT - like Blaine and even Angel's early work DID... not a freak show format with tomato tosses.

Derren Brown's DUMMY episode from TRICK OR TREAT is an interesting example of what COULD be done to be different and amazing
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
brainchild
View Profile
Loyal user
Ideological Bigot
259 Posts

Profile of brainchild
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 21:16, arnon wrote:
Members,

What I am finding myself proposing is that:

We collectively agree on solutions to the problems on the show, and then put together a united statement of our proposals to NBC.

Perhaps first clearing it through the performers themselves might be wise.

What do y'all think?

Arnon

Unless its going to dramatically increase their ratings, or put money into their pocket, I think they could care less what we think no matter how you or I feel about the situation.
Decomposed
View Profile
Eternal Order
High Desert
11989 Posts

Profile of Decomposed
After 31 pages, the totals are in:

They all suck: 23%

I could do it better: 36%

Criss Angel rules: 6%

Restrictions suck: 68%

J ack will win it all: 71%

Criss Angel knows Banacheck: 81%
Slim King
View Profile
Eternal Order
Orlando
17539 Posts

Profile of Slim King
Now THAT'S FUNNY! Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
HollyMental
View Profile
Elite user
OR
423 Posts

Profile of HollyMental
My local NBC affiliate decided to air something in place of Phenomenon this past Wednesday. Fortunately for me, they are required to air it sometime or another and that time is tonight. I’ve been reading this thread and I’ve just seen the show and I have to say, Wow! I can’t believe how much I disagree with the majority of posters.

I’m just going to go through the list and tell my thoughts. But first I want to say that I don’t believe Criss Angel was anywhere near as bad as what he was made out in this thread. I don’t agree with all his criticism but I don’t think he was all that bad either.

Ehud Segev
He was really relaxed and I thought he did a pretty good routine. I don’t think Criss would have busted him were it not for his claiming to have real supernatural powers. He made the claim; Criss said he would bust anyone who made the claim; so Ehud knew what he was walking into in that regard. But I thought he did a good job.

Jim Karol
I thought this was the weakest performance. I like him and I like his everyman approach. I thought he was too repetitive with some of his patter (I got tired of hearing how he had no idea how he was able to do the things he does) and it was clear he was making Ross very uncomfortable. I don’t personally agree with embarrassing an audience member or deliberately making them feel uncomfortable. I also think Jim could benefit from some acting lessons. I also felt the prediction was incongruous with the trap stunt. That said, I like his character, I think he’s very talented, and I applaud his courage. I’ve seen him perform other material that much more enthralled me and hope, if he returns, he will do some of that material because I’d like for people to see that side of him.

Eran Raven
This guy definitely has the look. He reminds me of Theodore Annemann. I think he could use a few acting lessons himself but I love how relaxed he is and how he handles spectators. I bet Carmen was getting dizzy when he blindfolded her and had his hands on her shoulders. I know I would be -- haha. His demo was intense and I felt it. I thought it was really good overall.

Also, as an aside, I don’t agree with the comments about how arrogant Criss was. I think people misunderstood his intention. When he said he performed the ultimate Russian Roulette, I believe he was referring to the fact that the use of a gun is the most dangerous way to perform this effect. It came off to me more as “talking shop” than trying to upstage anyone so I disagree with the criticism there.

Gerry McCambridge
I thought Gerry’s was the best of all and I totally disagree with both Uri and Criss’s criticism of Gerry’s performance. I honestly think both of them missed the boat on this one. Gerry was the most relaxed of all the performers, the most direct and assertive, the most articulate, and he performed the most detailed and intricate routine with more precision and expertise than any of the others. A large chunk of the audience collectively gasped at the revelations and I think that got overlooked in the fervor to fry this guy over his comment about being THE mentalist.

As far as the applause comment, I think that was just light hearted relief and as far as the “I’m THE mentalist” comment, well he shouldn’t have said it. But it takes supreme confidence to perform this type of material and anyone can slip into that mode. Judging him by his performance, he was simply overall the best mentalist of the evening. I was very disappointed in the judges when they shredded him and they lost their credibility with it. What more can you ask for than a collective gasp from the audience at a revelation? Pound for pound, he was the best performance of the evening and he deserved better critiques than he received.

Those are my thoughts and I’m surprised how much I disagree with many of the posts on this thread. I found it refreshing to see a mentalist on national television doing mentalism this way instead of the Criss Angel/David Blaine “accost people on the street” format.

I enjoyed it. I didn’t find it boring at all and I look forward to the rest of the series.


Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
DJM
View Profile
Inner circle
Israel
1681 Posts

Profile of DJM
Quote:
On 2007-10-26 23:28, HollyMental wrote:
Ehud Segev
He was really relaxed and I thought he did a pretty good routine. I don’t think Criss would have busted him were it not for his claiming to have real supernatural powers. He made the claim; Criss said he would bust anyone who made the claim; so Ehud knew what he was walking into in that regard. But I thought he did a good job.


He never claimed that he has supernatural powers, not sure which show you were watching.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Phenomenon » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..12..21..30..39..44~45~46~47~48~49 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.26 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL