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Eddie Garland
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Magic performers critiquing other magic performers in front of lay folk never sounded like a good idea to me.

In this venue...if someone truly performs outside the box in a phenomenal way it will always pale to some past "ultimate" Criss Angel illusion from Mindsleep.

Jim/ J ack, Angela and rest, I'm rooting for you all...but as Admiral Ackbar and Jim Karol once said..."It's a trap!"
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-24 23:30, entity wrote:
It was the mention of the words "PK TOUCH routine" and "Banachek" together, just after the touch routine performed. Angel might as well have supplied an URL directing viewers to an internet site where they might buy the routine. Extremely unprofessional.

- entity


This may be very true. Do a search for Pk Touch on google and you get a sponsored ad from Ellusionist that seems mighty suspicious. LOL

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=pk+t......ch&meta=

Best,

Tim
Shane Baker
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Dr Spektor: 21 card trick, lol. you got that right.

Overall the show seemed just... unfortunate: routines cut to bare bones with very little chance for the performers to show off personality (I guess that's what the bio intros were for -- better they should have had that time to develop their routines I think). In this sense, I think that Jim Carol did a good job, with his Madman approach -- I actually saw a character.

I don't know the performers or their careers, but I wonder how much television they've all done. Perhaps that's part of the problem, because a lot of stage material just loses its vitality when transferred "as is" to the screen.

On the bright side, exposure may not be such a great concern, because it barely even held MY interest. Yes, I'll have to twist my own arm to watch the Halloween episode.

Geller's effect was boring, but he played parts of it well, anyway. Angel I'd not watched before, nor would I seek him out, based on what I just saw.

Unfortunate...
Parson Smith
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Tim Drake,
Are you suggesting that someone is trying to make money by selling magic secrets to the public?

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Peace,
Parson
Here kitty, kitty,kitty. Smile
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Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2007-10-24 22:40, Bob Baker wrote:
The format simply can't work for mentalism. There's no time to build audience rapport, no time to create a real character that doesn't appear over the top.


Bob:

I think Maven and Kreskin could pull this off. What say ye?

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Parson Smith
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Terry,
Kreskin spends a looooong time building rapport.
I think that he would have a tough time.
(But I would like to see it.)
Could you imagine that little dip critiquing Kreskin?
He would be eaten alive.
Peace,
Parson
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+++a posse ad esse+++
Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2007-10-24 23:29, Dr Spektor wrote:
Azizsaqr..."Banacheck? Who dat?... y'mean that George Peppard guy from A team? Yeah yeah... the PK touches... in an episode of A Team he uses his mental might to deactivate a bomb or something..."

"Annemann? Whodat?.... oh yeah... he was that guy... who did that thing or something...."

"Criss Angel? Who dat.... huh... oh yeah... I heard of him once in Marakesh... what...?"

"Masked Magician... NO WAY! UNMASKED MENTALISTS!!!!...."

Criss removes his facemask... it is THE AMAZING RANDI!!!!

Uri: "Curse you Randy....."

Randi: "It is all over for you now...."

Uri: "If you strike me down now... I shall just become stronger...."

Rachel Huner: YAWWWWWWWN....


Dr., I did not know you spoke in tounges. Stop by church when you can. Smile
entity
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Word is that Kreskin was courted by NBC to be a part of this program. He politely declined. A very wise man.

- entity
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-24 23:40, Parson Smith wrote:
Tim Drake,
Are you suggesting that someone is trying to make money by selling magic secrets to the public?

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Peace,
Parson


LOL Parson,

My interest was peaked when Ellusionist added " PK Touch" to their google adwords in an ad labeled "Learn Phenomenon Secrets" Its like they suspected a bunch of searchs for that term to hit google. The ad used to link to a page promoting the show and showing how Ellusionist supplied the shows contestants with gift bags. Its now gone and comes up 404. Ooooohh Errie...LOL

Best,

Tim
Christopher Lyle
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I watched and saw exactly what I expected which was 1 hour of my life that I'll never get back. I could say more but I've promised some Café' members that I would be on my best behavior...well...for today at least! I won't watch again!
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
Parson Smith
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Hey Christopher,

Wifey still talks about your card in balloon.
You could have probably won with that.

Maybe next time.

Peace,
Parson

Oh yes, you need to watch and support Jim/J ack.
Here kitty, kitty,kitty. Smile
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rick727
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I was unable to watch the show because I was flying from Albuquerque to Austin. It sounds like I didn't miss much. I did record it on my DVR so I can watch it over the weekend. The good news is that I can fast forward through the commercials so I will only be wasting about 46 minutes of my life Smile

Maybe I should have applied. I do a GREAT version of the Famous 21 Card Trick Smile. Maybe I should write an e-book (LOL).

-Rick
Practice what you present.

Present what you practice.
Tod Todson
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Shame, shame, shame on Criss Angel.
Tonight I lost professional respect for him.

-Tod Torrent
Mystifier, Youth Speaker
<BR><BR>
Dynamike
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Tod, we all gotta get old sometime.
WhateverUnique
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Ellusionist almost seals the deal...When was that posted? I mean was it something they modified after/during the show or was it there days ago. Either way.

I'm glad everyone here , and let's all hope that all the guys on the show, are mad at what criss did. Doing what I do for a living I get people all the time inquiring about having me create/build something for them. Sometimes these are gag effects for TV or film. They ask me about the cost and then they ask me about how I plan to build whatever it might be...like materials, ect....I don't even get into it with them. Just me mentioning materials can often lead them to figuring it out on their own. Nope...I display an online portfolio and if I say I can make it then I can. If I turn down the job then I couldn't.....but I've never done that.

I think everyone here needs to log into the NBC site and rant on criss....seriously....flood NBC's board with messages....oh but because its a message board and not a forum....it's screened by Aziar or what ever that dudes name is....
Gianni
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Well, I'll chime in.

1) I can't believe all the people on this forum who thought the effects were boring. I thought the performers did a GREAT job. The PK touch routine was the best I've ever seen ANYONE perform it.

2)The BIG letdown was Criss Angel. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING IN ENCOURAGING HIM TO GIVE REVIEWS? For example, after what I felt was an exhilarating PK routine, Angel drags everyone down with a critique that suggests this was a routine performance of someone else's work. For anyone who was truly amazed - and I was - having Criss Angel judge the performance like a juggling act just crushed my heart. It brought me down. It also dampened anyone who was enthusiastic about what they had just seen. What a terrible program structure: in magic you want to draw in every spectator you can and give them a sense of wonder. If you succeed, the LAST thing you want is a twerp with ostensible credentials critiquing you publicly about what you've done. The public should not be privy to a magic critique! The only result to that is that you risk losing anyone's wonder that you may have cultivated. TERRIBLE SHOW FORMAT. Just let the performers perform and let the audience vote. This is NOT Dancing with the Stars. The technical aspects of magic performances are NOT for public consumption.

(Oh, and as to Rachel Hunter appearing bored, she's always bored. On anything you see her in. I've never seen a display of spirit in the woman. A prime example of how far you can go with looks alone.)

Gianni
Ramsay
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I really do not know what to think about this. I think time will tell whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. It seems slightly rash to judge the effect of a show so soon after its airing. I think we will see the real impact (or non-impact) as the show progresses.

Having said that - I feel everything I felt about the concept of the show has been proven to me. I do not see why ANY performer would want to be treated as a "performing monkey" with no time to establish a personality.

It strikes me that with mentalism more than anything else the performance is a personality driven art. If we look in the past it was never the "tricks" that created well known performers but always the power of their personality.

This show format robs the performers the chance to establish themselves as personalities. Without the personality of the performer driving the performance we are seeing nothing more than mentalism being "demonstrated" and not being "presented" there is a big difference. We may as well be putting dealer video demonstrations up there.

One thing I did find interesting was seeing Gellers final prediction - using a well known recently marketed magic prop. I wonder if Geller is not "tipping his hat" to the magicians in the hope that we might adopt him as "one of us" thus helping prevent potential issues he faced with the original show here in the USA.

As for Criss Angel - I can not say I am shocked. In my opinion CA is the only one who stands to gain from this. CA gets the chance to compare material he has performed in the past to what we are seeing in a TOTALLY different situation. CA has total control over his performance space. We are seeing performers with their space being handed to them - hence the high level of "real world" material we saw here and not the normal TV style material. In comparing his own material to the material on this show CA instantly gets the same assumed "fair conditions" credit that the performers on this show are working with. The idea that CA performs under the same situations makes this a smart move for him. However the performers on the show will never be able to compare their material in the same light as they are working under TOTALLY different situations and conditions. I hope this makes sense and is not just me talking myself around in circles.

I wonder if after this it might pay off for us to stop using the term "Mentalist." It has been said by many before that magic suffers from those who have performed it badly in the past. Often lay people only see one magician in their life. If this magician is bad (or as in the case with this NBC show simply not great) that spectator will now carry a negative conceptual memory of what "magic" is.

I wonder if we are going to find ourselves in the same spot with the word "mentalist" will this show raise the profile of the definition to the point where we might want to no longer be known as mentalists as the definition itself may do our art form a disservice rather than accurately convey what it really is about.

This issue of definition is very bothersome to me.

I really do not see anyone becoming a "star" from this. The performers simply do not have the time to connect with the audience to become the star. Music is different - people can connect with song lyrics in far shorter time frames than they ever could with a mentalism performance. I do not see a Kelly Clarkson of mentalism coming from this show. On top of this the judges will always remain those dominant. Even with the other shows of this nature (different skill sets but same format) the judges are the most "famous" people on the show. Mainly I think this is due to the fact that we as the viewer have far longer to establish a connection with the judges (whether it be love or hate) and have further time to invest in the "drama" that unfolds between them with disagreements and so fourth. The judges are the personality driven aspect of the show - not the performers. This to me creates an impossible loop where the performers will constantly be relegated to second spot>

With that said - I am often wrong much more than I am right with my predictions (especially if they are not baked in loafs of bread or in a big old chest) and could be proven wrong with this show format.

I think the best thing we can do is present a collected front in the face of potential harm to the art form we all love. I really hope we do not create an issue as was created with the "masked magician" shows years back. In screaming about something we only bring more attention to it. The best thing we can all do is to continue to support one another's artistic performance and exploration in the hope that together we can help one another present mentalism that is AS GOOD AS IT CAN BE. The more mentalists that are performing GREAT MENTALISM the better it is for all of us. Equally the more of us that are out there do what we do as well as we can do it - the fewer people will begin to dislike "mentalists" because of this show.

Well that's my knee jerk response. I do not often post such feelings on open forums (I do not often post things like this anywhere in truth) it just seemed that right now a community the size of the magic Café could really make a difference to what might happen as a backlash from this show. I hope as a community of mentalists we can all whether our way thru the storm and ensure that mentalism as an art form comes out on top.

Luke Jermay.
Eddie Garland
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That was beautiful Luke!
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-25 00:21, Gianni wrote:
Well, I'll chime in.

1) I can't believe all the people on this forum who thought the effects were boring. I thought the performers did a GREAT job. The PK touch routine was the best I've ever seen ANYONE perform it.

TERRIBLE SHOW FORMAT.

Gianni


Gianni,

You make a good point. Lets not jump on the performers. The performances were good but the "celebrity" dressing made it seem so fake and plastic. Its like when you appear on a television show and the hosts have to be "on" and toss in jokes in the middle or your routine. They ruin it. Its your routine and has its own flow. We don't need their help. The whole Carmen Electra thing as well as the other celebs ruined it for me. These guys are pros and could have worked better with real people from the audience. I also got the impression they were all under very tight time restraints as the show was live.

Uri... totally ruined it for me. That annoying stare he does looks like he needs an emergency bathroom break. At the end when the star is revealed he hollers..." Yes.... America got it!" because 28 percent picked the star. That may be true but 72 percent got something else..LOL

Best,

Tim
Magikrn
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Aren't you associated with Criss Angel Luke?


Anyway, as for the show. I found it to be mildly entertaining. I hope the next set of hopefulls is better though. Had I wanted to waste time to vote though, I would have picked the Russian Roullette fella.

We shall see what happens next week.
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