What can be more natural than reaching into your pocket, finding "nothing", and patting your side with your "empty" hand as it exits the pocket?

This "natural" action completely cements the fact that I have nothing in my hand without saying a word; when in fact I'm reaching into my pocket, obtaining my 3CM in Fingers Open Grip (FOG), and concealing it in said grip while casually patting my side with fingers spread open and a completely flat hand. It looks perfect and exactly as it is suppose to look....casual, meaningless, and natural.

I'm a freak for unspoken subtleties.

Peace,
charlie

I agree with Vinny on this one. Many magicians believe that their classic palms are great (and some are very good), however, IMO, there's always some unnatural aspect that creeps in, such as pinkie curling in too much, pinkie curled up as if holding tea cup, thumb disappearing behind fingers, etc. The solution, for me, is to get out of CP as soon as possible (fingertip rest, curl palm, high and low finger palm, Miller Finger Palm, for example). Having said all of that, David Williamson gets my vote as one of the best.

Or, instead of curling in the pinkie, or letting the thumb disappear behind finger, why not just work on doing the classic palm better? David Roth tells the story of being in a jazz club and watching the piano player play his set with a coin in classic palm. He went up to the piano player during the break and complimented him on being able to hold out a coin while playing. The piano player laughed and turned over his hand. It wasn't a coin he was holding, it was a tattoo of a coin! But the point Roth made was that had it BEEN a coin, it would have been a good way to work on naturalness and a good classic palm.

Classic palm can look just about perfect when the hand is in a position it would be in anyways. Usually, for me, this means a position where the hand is at rest and hanging down in such a way that the thumb is being pushed in to hold the coin by gravity. This way, there's no tension and both hands at rest look exactly the same. A sticky coin that fits my hand well can be held without any kind of a tell (maybe a very, very slight sense of tension) in such a position.

Beyond that I think the classic palm does best with some kind of cover for the tension in the thumb (holding something), but every palm has its limitations. And if it's just a question of what you can get away with...

-Travis

NicholasD,
Have you watched David Roth? I never know if he does or doesn't have one in CP!

Mickey,

David is lecturing at our local magic shop in November. He's also having a special session for the hardcore guys. So, I'll get another look.

David, of course, has a very good classic palm, but he has even mentioned, in the past, the idea of transferring the coin from one type of palm to another.

That lecture should be awesome! David was in Cali a few weeks ago, and I missed meeting him at one of the shops by a day. DRAT!
Look forward to hearing your thoughts on his lecture!
Mick

It seems to me there are "two" parts to a "great" classic palm. One is doing the classic palm itself, and the other, maybe the most important, is misdirection. I believe they work hand-in-hand, no pun intended.....

To be honest, I like treating a dirty hand as normal to point to or tap the clean hand to bring attention to the clean hand while the dirty one is moving. Now that I type all that up, it seems confusing. I hope it makes sense.

This is interesting.



I remember reading the above post and today I was reading through Harry Lorayne's Apocalypse Vol. III NO.11 from 1980 and I saw this:

http://www.podcastrant.com/Images/cointattoo.jpg

I guess it's not only tricks that get re-released with minor variations. I'm mostly joking, but thought that others might find it funny and/or of interest.

Because it's made with real sugar instead of corn syrup?
:)

That story is starting to build a folklore reputation. I can remember David Roth telling this story as if he was actually talking to a jazz musician with a silver dollar tattooed on his palm. Well, I guess David was just trying to make a point with the story, but that is an interesting find.

"Because it's made with real sugar instead of corn syrup? "

yes, real sugar, that's the missing ingredient for a good classic palm. I don't want to see any coin magician doing any more coin magic with artificial sweeteners (?).

As for the story, Roth has told that story for years. I will ask him if it really happened to him, or if its a metafor for practicing the palm. Not that it matters whose story it is, the point of the story is that if you want to practice a good classic palm, you should be able to do other things with your hand while the coin is palmed.

I think what RK wrote in the introductory pages of COINMAGIC is among the most inportant lessons a coin working can learn: that moving a coin between concealments is a VERY important skill.

Having a great classic palm is meaningless if they SUSPECT you have a coin "palmed." Holding a coin there briefly, so you can use your hand in such a way as to imply emptiness, and moving the coin undetectably to another concealment that allows the “palm” to be seen empty is much more valuable.

As Dr. Rubenstein notes, the thing that makes a classic palm valuable is that all your fingers are free to create that impression of emptiness by using the hand. Not by showing how well you can palm a coin…

Ws, I agree...Lot of discussion spent here on classic palming a coin. Even remember an entire dvd dedicated to it. I guess I have never thought that much about it as it is a basic sleight you learn early on. I guess some people do it better than others but the aim remains the same, to allow your hand to look empty and natural. I've seen guys that can CP with thier hands pretty flat - nice, but not necessary. The hand in its natural rest setting is not held flat and rigig like that. It's slightly curled, and that's all you need to use the CP for. But moving coins between concealments as you mention is what it's all about really. Once you move the coin from CP to be able to now show your palm empty as well, then any such suspision is gone. I guess I have pretty good CP and I can even do the "flat" stuff too at times, but it's ever necessary. Also, if you make the misdirection correctly, spec aren't even thinking of your CP hand, no matter how supposedly bad your CP is. Learned only 1 good thing of use about the CP, and that was from Roth dvds as to how not to extend the thumb, good point. Other than that, when you can remember to do it, keep moving on and your CP will get better on its own. But I agree with you ws, you're really not supposed to be showing how well you can palm a coin. If you're doing it right and or good enough, it's not even a question, no matter good-better-best.

Chad: Just happened upon this thread - thanks for mentioning MY STORY from decades ago in APOCALYPSE. As I said in that story, people were going around at that time telling it as if it happened to them. I'm surprised at Michael R. and David R. And, Chad, "re-released" is a good synonym for "steal." Best - HARRY LORAYNE.

Hi Harry, hope you and your family are doing well. It was great seeing you at Ace's party a few months ago. I was with David today, and he told me that the story he tells about meeting the Jazz pianist with the silver dollar tattoo on his palm really happened to him. Perhaps you both had similar incidents (and since you don't live very far from each other, perhaps you ran into the same guy?). Can't tell you much more than that, its not my story, and David doesn't post here. David tells this story all the time when he discusses classic palm. I guess if its an issue, you should talk to him about it. As I said, its not my story, the only tattoo I have seen recently is on my girlfriend's......ANYWAY, I only brought it up because it is a good story to illustrate how to get a good classic palm.

Michael: It happened in Miami Beach in 1949! It's really not important, but do you really believe that the same thing happened to David? What are the odds? C'mon! It's obvious that David read the story in APOCALYPSE, or I probably told it to him, etc. Maybe he's told it so often that he started to believe it himself?! Repeat, not important - I still love you both. HARRY LORAYNE.

Interesting stuff here. You just never know about authorities on things. Certainly no disrespect is meant as we are speaking with and of great practitioners and accomplished individuals, but people in most cases are only as smart and knowing as you are not. Anything can be better known if you want to take the time to track it down, and it doesn't take any particular genius to do it, that's for sure. But sometimes the light shines from interesting places and shines on us all with things we did not know as well as we think we knew them, and clearly that goes for the big and the small.

Anyway, "Happy Holidays" to you Mr. Lorayne, so good of you to drop by here. I have always deeply appreciated your work. Thanks for the light.

And oh yeah Michael, about that tatoo...Just where did you say it was??? Just kidding my friend. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

MB217; WHAAAAT?!?! hl