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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Cremation (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

ufo
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Inner circle
Springfield, Missouri
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Hi folks,
Im looking into this illusion for a special project next year. I would like to hear any stories, thoughts, experiences, ideas and suggested manufactures for the cremation illusion.
"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind."
H.P. Lovecraft
Christian Illusionist
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Ohio (currently located in Missouri)
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Are you talking about the Franz Harary effect?
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
Swann101
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I am sure he means the coffin type cremation with the skelleton?
Spellbinder
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The Holy City of East Orange, NJ
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You could make a nice lightweight version of this yourself if you wanted to cremate an alien (a la Roswell). You could also get over and around the fire insurance/ fire laws, etc. by cremating it with a "green light" instead of ordinary flames. Well, maybe add some flash paper around the ports just for effect. It would fit your U.F.O. theme and be sorta old/new at the same time.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
ufo
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Inner circle
Springfield, Missouri
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Good ideas. I appreciate your input.
Yes, Im talking about the traditional effect, although new twists are always (usually) good as well.
"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind."
H.P. Lovecraft
Michael Baker
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Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
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There are very good plans in "The Great Illusions of Magic". They are probably a copy of Thayer Blueprints. Owen Magic should still have them. Osborne also has them.

http://www.osborneillusionsystems.com/

If you decide to add the pop-up skeleton feature, spend some time on that. Most versions look mechanical and crappy.

There is an interesting "reverse" version of this effect, called, "Ressurection" in Paul Osborne's column in Genii (Oct 2006). This eliminates the fire issue. I have been considering building one of those for my own show.

On the subject of fire, I am wondering if the cloth flame devices could be used with any effectiveness? I've seen some that were pretty convincing.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
ufo
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Inner circle
Springfield, Missouri
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Excellent suggestions!
"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind."
H.P. Lovecraft
Blair Marshall
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Montreal, Canada
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Not knowing where you work, you may want to check, withnin that market you wish to use it ie. schools or hotels or arenas etc. what the fire regulations are!

Lots of new rules, city by city, state by state.

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"
ufo
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Springfield, Missouri
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Yeah it is a factor if you troupe it but this will be done for a specialized location that will be free and clear with permission to 'burn baby burn'. So that isn't an issue.
"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind."
H.P. Lovecraft
sb
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As for in the box, instead of fire and instead of the Halloween flame lights...

Do you think it would work to just have some very bright lights inside, colored to simulate fire (ie. red, orange, etc...) maybe one color could strobe or flicker? Have a small fogger inside, or just an aeresol can of smoke.

I would think that if you could avoid the real fire you will be much happier as there will be no fire marshall issues to pop up.



I've wanted a cremation for a while... I just like the effect. How strong of an effect do you think it is tho...?

Scott
Michael Baker
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Quote:
On 2007-10-16 18:00, sb wrote:


Do you think it would work to just have some very bright lights inside, colored to simulate fire (ie. red, orange, etc...) maybe one color could strobe or flicker?


Just a side story on this... Back in the early 1980's another Café member and I were asked to consult on the magic segments for a local production of "Pippin". For the climax scene, we designed and constructed a vertical cremation that used colored lights to simulate fire, as the play was being done under a tent. We did however, put a small flash pot in the floor of the cabinet for the smoke effect.

The lights were controlled by the person inside, after hiding in the proper area.

The set designer did not want us to paint the box, as they wanted to do that themselves, so it would match the rest of the set. No problem... except they painted the inside of the box with a type of paint that conducted electricity quite nicely. This included painting directly over the flashpot. The first time the actor stepped out the rear, planted one foot on the ground, and pushed the button for the flashpot, he nearly fried himself!

Quote:

How strong of an effect do you think it is tho...?



From a believability standpoint? This is contextual. In most presentations, it would be hard for the audience to swallow the notion that someone was just burned alive... especially since this is hardly ever finished with a restoration. For some reason, they more readily accept a smiling girl being sliced, divided, punctured, sawed, stretched, or twisted. They more willingly accept the illusion because they understand that she will be ok in the end. Most magic shows feature a smiling cast.

In the proper context, the burned alive cremation would be quite effective... such as, killing a vampire in his/her coffin during the course of a play.

In a current show, as the ill-fated hero(?), I am having my head burned off in a head cremation. I am not restored, but rather my headless living body is put on display in a sort of torture rack. (sideshow freak) The failure to restore my head is therefore justified. The same would apply to the full body version, I'd think.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Spellbinder
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The Holy City of East Orange, NJ
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In Jim Gerrish's "Flight of the Phoenix" in The Wizards' Journal #3 (on my site) he apparently cremates a live dove, which he claims is related to the ancient phoenix. Collecting the dove's ashes in a little silver (baby) spoon, he dumps them into a cage where the dove reappears.

The same concept might work with a human cremation, sweeping up the remains and dumping them into a cauldron which happens to be in front of a flash appearance portal of some type. Maybe performed to some music from "The Firebird" as background. The reappearance costume could look like something out of the Zeigfield follies- all gitter and feathers and flames... or not.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
Bradacal
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Not sure, but I was looking on Ebay and there is one on there made by Snap Illusions I believe....
Father Photius
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Built one once, played with it some and decided it didn't fit my show style and didn't use it. As I recall I sold it off a few years later. Also built a ceremonial (head) cremation. Also felt it didn't fit, but since it was multi functional used it for something else. Did hand cremation as a comedy bit with a second magician, played very well. Tried it a few times as a serious effect, didn't get near the reaction you would expect, kind of blaise reaction.
It presents the same dangers any fire effect presents, keep a good quality and large fire extinguisher handy at all times and check local fire codes before using. Not something you want to leave about for the kids to play with. I've seen it play with good reactions. Even recall a time when WWE, then WWF used it at the end of one of their matches.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
ufo
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Springfield, Missouri
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As to the effect itself, I think it has to be given a context as Michael said. It should be a startling vanish, not the overly obvious "Circus of the Stars" type thing. How 'convincing' it is will depend on the apparatus and the presentation and the pre-conditioning of the audience's minds dramatically.
"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind."
H.P. Lovecraft
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