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Gotama Veteran user 381 Posts |
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On 2007-10-24 09:05, Bill Ligon wrote: Bill and Docsteve, We all sometimes want the hamburger, hot dog, or one of those silly, meaningless movies. The point is not high culture versus low culture, but fulfilling the need of your audience. If I went to see Balckstone Sr. perform (oh, so many years ago), I would be expecting and wanting a much different experience that see Criss Angel or David Blaine. One is not better than the other in this sense, but one would fit better the mood I was in at the time. It is almost like those who say that James Patterson's fiction is not very deep and lack full characterization. I don't read him for that purpose. I read James Patterson to relax and to enjoy a mystery. Likewise, when I read a Buddhist text in Pail, I am not expecting a light, entertaining read. Instead, I am something to challenge me and make me think. The end result is that sometines we want our Big Mac (can we at least change this to a Carl's Jr or Wendy's hamburger) and other times we want our Steak Dianne. In any case, we are then to provide a "meaning" to our audience. It can be as simple as sit down, relax, and laugh or as complicated as to challenge our sense of reality.
I asked the boy beneath the pines.
He said, "The master's gone alone herb picking, somewhere on the mount, cloud hidden, whereabouts unknown." (Chin Tao, 777-841, trans. by Alan Watts) |
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james1a Loyal user 209 Posts |
Hi:
One of the finest magical acts I have seen was Channing Pollocks. Could someone explain the meaning, the plot, the premise. Or simpler what is the meaning of 'a midsummer nights dream', what is the plot. magic has no meaning. all magic is story magic. bob1a |
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
In a sense you are correct James. But. . . I'm not interested in most of the inane stories that most magicians are telling. I really couldn't give a rats tuchas about the three of clubs, or why you think it keeps coming back. Nor will I hesitate to tell anyone who tries to impose that on me. Make it a real story, though, and you'll have my undivided attention. Yes all magic is story magic, but most of them are stupid stories.
And, by the way, I knew Channing Pollack a little bit. He definately had a meaning in mind with his magic. There was a plot, there was a story. I didn't know Shakespeare, but I'm fairly sure, after spending several years reading and studying his plays, there is a lot of meaning in ALL of his plays. And there is a very clear plot and story in "A Midsummer's Nights Dream." Raven
What would Wavy do?
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james1a Loyal user 209 Posts |
Mark:
with respect "in a sense you are correct" that makes no sense to me. I am not talking about the stories told, you vanish a coin it is a story. With respect to Channing Pollock, you do say you knew him etc. but you do not explain the meaning of his act or the plot of his act. Finally you mention that there is a lot of meaning in all of Shakespeares's plays, so presumably you are saying, if the meaning can be made explicit, that Shakespeare is no longer 'Bottomless'. If the plot is so clear, and the story is so clear then the most important characters must be quite explicit. james1a |
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docsteve Inner circle 1831 Posts |
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It can be as simple as sit down, relax, and laugh or as complicated as to challenge our sense of reality. Thanks Stuart, well said - I think that's what I was trying articulate, and you've summed it up in a line. I guess my 'worry' is - am I selling-out by doing both? Is my compromise letting myself down as a Bizarre performer? Best wishes Steve
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
James,
What I meant by "in a sense correct" was expressed in my first post on this thread. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think meaning comes from the person or people participating in an experience. That doesn't make the meaning any less true. And, I added later, sometimes the imagery in an effect/play is so strong it evokes a similar meaning for most people. Where we part company is when you say "all magic is story magic". Again, I essentially agree with you, but I think most of the stories you're refering to are meaningless to me. Hope this helps. Raven
What would Wavy do?
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
When I write a performance piece, I strive to entertain, enlighten/ offer a moral or lesson to the tale rather than just creep someone out, That is what I mean to do; is that the same as meaning?
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Gede Nibo Inner circle 2447 Posts |
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On 2007-10-25 10:52, docsteve wrote: I have a crooked leg. my hair, unkempt for 20yrs. flowing down in locks of anciency. I smoke big cigars that I cannot afford, and my gold tooth shines when I smile... my walking stick which I depend upon to keep my afoot is carved from mahogany wood, and has a serpent crawling toward the top.... I wear beads of many colors, and brass bangles that were once worn by slaves--they were found in a s. carolina slave port... I give Light wheresover I trod. thus, when I perform a french drop---is it the work of the Spirit? doubt it not! I am spirit. as we all are. its only to live it. blessed. Baba |
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Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
I can only be pedestrian in this topic but bluie collar folk tend to lean that way...when I perform (these days it's in creating a piece that has been ordered) I find meaning in paying the rent. Not being flippant...that rent gets me one step closer to the amount needed for the next rent...not so esoteric but profound none the less...so each piece done has great importance to me that it be of import and value to the customer...who hopefully will find meaning in getting results on his/her level. Because of various circumstances that set up a situation of 'month to month' and a hungry landlord rather than a viable mortgage...the meaning is an ever present bear. When there is a slow month (like this one) that bear takes on a larger presence...just makes me work not just harder but better, at least as best I can because 'my' meaning bites me in the ass.
D
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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Bill Ligon Inner circle A sure sign of a misspent youth: 6437 Posts |
Baba, sometimes you are so eloquent it is frightening! I wish I could speak as well as you, Brother!
Doug, I appreciate what you have to say about paying the rent. I think that is MEANING with teeth! Bill
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
<BR>A TASSEL ON THE LUNATIC FRINGE |
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coupcoupdaddy Inner circle 2466 Posts |
We love this hearty green XChange and all the mull-it witches and snail riders, too! happity boitday on odin's day, Bill!
HDXFH!
foreign correspondent, z and lt
inner being worker |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
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On 2007-10-24 15:20, Gede Nibo wrote: Quote:
On 2007-10-27 17:23, Gede Nibo wrote: Baba Having read, and lived your words (in my own way) I can say you are, indeed, a brother from another mother. Tony |
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Gotama Veteran user 381 Posts |
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On 2007-10-27 06:15, docsteve wrote: Docsteve, I do not understand the "selling out." We fulfill our role as an entainter whether we provoke laughter or fear. When you perform, you need to be yourself. It would be very dull if we are tried for the same result. Selling out, for me, is when we no longer try to be ourselves but somebody else. When you look at some of the other individuals on the Café, you will see that many of them are very comfortable being themselves. They base their magic on who they are. Read Baba's posts to see a fellow mage comfortable in who he is. And in that comfort, he creates his own meaning. Baba, for example, knows exactly where he is and expresses it with eloquence.
I asked the boy beneath the pines.
He said, "The master's gone alone herb picking, somewhere on the mount, cloud hidden, whereabouts unknown." (Chin Tao, 777-841, trans. by Alan Watts) |
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Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
Unless you talk to him on the phone and he doesn't have time to compse...then he's just like me.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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docsteve Inner circle 1831 Posts |
Stuart: I try to make every single piece of magic I do be more than 'just a trick' - a puzzle. However, this summer I ended doing 3 gigs I would normally try to avoid (table hopping at a ball, and 2 weddings) where I did light-hearted, visual and essentially 'meaningless' magic, although it went down very well, and it was fun for me (there - I've admitted it). What I did was appropraite for the setting, but it felt cheap. And dirty. Ok, maybe I exaggerate. But should we try and live an Ideal? Should we get wristbands - WWTAD - 'what would Tony Andruzzi do?'
Maybe I'm just thinking too much. Like I said earlier, blame Leland Doug: nice one. Cheers Steve
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KOTAH Inner circle 2289 Posts |
" AS ABOVE, SO BELOW "
It was a strange and conflicting flight from the beginning. Escorting bodies home from a war that has no winning. Seated near awindow, I glance up to stars above, and imagine angels living there. Looking down, a different pattern of constellations twinkle on the ground. The lights of the city seem to say, as above, so below; but you know it isn't so. Some angels there, but very rare. In the unlit canyons buildings form. Rats and demons freely swarm. Daily their number grows. The momentum of madness never slows. Evil grows as well, in our man made hells. Ask the cadavers with me on my flight; heros killed as infedels. They have seen hell, now only salvation seek. The earth's to be inherited by the weak. Daily their number grows, the momentum of war seldom slows. For them, silver or bronze stars do not constitute a heaven. Crosses and hearts given posthumously do not restore a family. Neither will the cargo in tow on this flight. As above,so below. I wish I may, I wish I might; Have the wish, I wish tonight. Effects: The word 'peace' , may appear on a pane of glass when breathed upon . A star hung from a thin chain may move using a pendulum principle. A Smaller brass star may transform into a bullet casing. |
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
As I said, Brother Kotah, I really like that. There are a lot of very subtle effects that can be done with this, but I particularly like your last idea. Very, MEANINGFUL, ahem.
Raven
What would Wavy do?
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Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
Truely the earth shall be inherited by the meek...when we're done with it.
Nice piece my friend Kotah.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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Gotama Veteran user 381 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-28 15:11, docsteve wrote: Okay, works for me - let's blame Leland I think that you are overthinking it. You are the only that categorized it as "meaningless." Did you enjor doing the show? Did the audience enjoy themselves? If so, then it sounds plently meaningful to me. Kotah - well said.
I asked the boy beneath the pines.
He said, "The master's gone alone herb picking, somewhere on the mount, cloud hidden, whereabouts unknown." (Chin Tao, 777-841, trans. by Alan Watts) |
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docsteve Inner circle 1831 Posts |
Thanks one and all here - I've taken a lot from all this, and I appreciate a lot of you have given.
Kotah - I'm digging out my Ghost glass fluid tonight! Cheers & best wishes all S
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