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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Flat against the table. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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cabin fever
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I was watching the Roth DVD, Complete Intro to Coin Magic, and at one point he has a half in CP with his hands flat against the table while rat-a-tat tapping his fingers.

He stated that after practice and time, it can be accomplished. Really?

I imagine some of you can do it, but is this in reach for most people?
Fingers
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I imagine it's something anyone with over 30 years of intense practice could tackle.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
Jaz
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Holding my hand as flat as Roth's has been out of my reach for years.
IMO, hand structure, texture and flexibility have a lot to do with coin sleights.
sethb
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Although Roth's CP is very impressive, I think it's more of a move to impress magicians than would actually necessary to the performance of any coin trick. If your hand is held and used in a relaxed manner with a classic palm, it's not necessary to totally flatten the hand in order to "prove" that nothing is there.

But since I can't do a decent classic palm in the first place, maybe I'm just jealous. Smile SETH
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Chad Barnard
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He says as much in his video. He was just showing you what could be done with practice. He doesn't hold his hand like this in performance.
Jaz
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Actually, Pod, in an old Stars of Magic vid, where Roth does a Coins Across routine at a table, his hands are quite flat.
DStachowiak
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It's more important to be able to hold your "dirty" hand the way you normally hold your hand when it's empty. My own hands, when empty and at rest on the table, are about half closed anyway, with the fingers curled. Having my palm flat on the table is an extremely unnatural position for me. Even if I could do it, it would look grotesque because it's not my natural position.
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Chad Barnard
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For an extended period of time, Jaz? Or is it just for a moment, like in his Winged Silver?
Jaz
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Only for a moment, Pod, but he does it SO WELL! Smile
Probably was titled Winged Silver. It's been a while.
Chad Barnard
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I agree with you on that. He has a very deceptive classic palm.

On the video that they're referencing above, "Expert Coin Magic...Made Easy! Vol I", he lays his hand flat with fingers wide apart. He drums his fingers on the table and wiggles his thumb for an extended period of time with a coin concealed.

He then goes on to say that this is not a natural hand position, but that he was just showing the student what can be done with practice.
Jaz
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"He drums his fingers on the table and wiggles his thumb for an extended period of time with a coin concealed."

This could be funny in the right context. Not for any extended period of time, but for a few seconds as one wonders where a coin went.

I agree, a totally flat hand is not natural, and a relaxed hand is preferable.
MickeyPainless
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When I first saw DR's CP, I just about gave up on coin magic! LOL
There are now odd days that I can get my hand nearly that flat, but as the guys above have mentioned, it's not a natural look, so not to worry! When I practice I work on making both hands look the same, as well as practicing the grip/palm/move/etc. with either hand.
Mick
Dan Watkins
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I think David was doing this to prove the point that the Classic Palm mechanics does absolutely nothing to impede ability to freely move your fingers, and you can actually lay your hand flat and still wiggle fingers.

I can do this quite well, but I have never used it personally in an actual routine.

When I lay my hand perfectly flat on the table when Classic Palming, I can actually trap skin between the coin and the table which basically allows me to completely relax my hand and capture the coin. I just have to contract my palm muscles again to retain the coin as I lift my hand.

I did take a quick video clip and some images of my hand pressed up against a piece of glass to show what I am talking about. Initially I posted the links here, but in retrospect I thought that maybe it was being to revealing of the Classic Palm in a public forum. So instead, I amended my Classic Palm essay in the Foundations section of http://www.coinvanish.com

Just click the link for the “Foundations” section. I am using a Java Applet for you to enter the password. If you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer 7, you will get a message in the Explorer information bar that states, "This website is using a scripted window to ask you for information. If you trust this website, click here to allow scripted windows." You will need to click and choose, "Temporarily Allow Scripted Windows". Then you need to click the link again to open the Password Java Applet.

Just answer the password question, and scroll to the bottom of my Classic Palm essay to see the added text, video and images.

Dan
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vinsmagic
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Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
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With my crimping technique my hand can also stay flat- flat on the table and the hand can be slammed flat over and over without the coin be jared loose
pm me if you want to see this on a demo
vinny
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http://www.vinnymarini.com
cabin fever
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Oops! Posted this in the wrong forum, sorry mods, rookie mistake.

Apparently I was right about this, it’s seems according to this thread that it’s not within reach of most people and some of you can do it. And I figured that this was not a natural position for someone’s hands to be in and that he was just showing what can be accomplished with practice.

However, I wonder if that is really true? Reading some of the stuff here it almost sounds as if you need to have the correct type of hand as well as practice in order to accomplish something like this.

Dan and Vinny, WOW! Out of pure curiosity did it take you years to develop this or is coin magic something that just came more naturally for you as opposed to lets say cards?
marty.sasaki
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I asked Ray Goulet about the classic palm recently. I just can't seem to get it myself, did he have any advice. His classic palm is pretty good, but it isn't the best palm. His finger palm looked more natural, although his classic palm looked pretty good. He mentioned that there was something about Roth's hands, the shape of his hands or his skin or something that lets him do a classic palm with a really relazed hand.

He then stressed that you don't need a CP to be successful.

I'll continue to work on it, but if I never get it, that's okay.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On 2007-10-25 05:48, cabin fever wrote:
...

I imagine some of you can do it, but is this in reach for most people?


Yes, though your hand may not look as good on the way down and back up as Roth's does until you spend the time getting your CP muscles all set.

Again, yes that part is.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dan Watkins
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Cabin Fever, my best advice on the subject has been embodied in my above referenced Classic Palm essay. I have recieved countless emails from people all over the country on how much it has helped them. Many where guys that were just doing it wrong for years and did not realize it.

To answer your question, I think a good Classic Palm is attainable by most everyone if they put in the time. Your hand is not used to holding objects there, but over time, if you do it enough, you will gain better control over the concealment.

I have had people personally come up to me and tell me that the way their hands were it is impossible for them to Classic Palm. In a matter of minutes I have had them actually Classic Palming a coin. It may not have looked the best, they might not have had good control of it, but they were shocked to learn that yes, indeed they could physically do it when they thought they could not.
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Dan Watkins
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Quote:
On 2007-10-25 20:29, vinsmagic wrote:
With my crimping technique my hand can also stay flat- falt on the table and the hand can be slammed flat over and over without the coin be jared loose
pm me if you want to see this on a demo
vinny


With your thumb out flat just like your other fingers? Smile
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NicholasD
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The classic palm is interesting in many ways. Many coin workers try to develop the necessary muscles, yet the lightest of touches usually produces the best natural look. And, speaking about flat hands on the table or on a spectator's palm, rather than work so hard, consider the purse palm.
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