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meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
What they all have in common is that they're UNFINSHED products that shouldn't have been put on the market yet. All three of them have some rough parts that are integral to the routine. Oh, and mentioning routine, not one of them has a decent patter to justify all the moves (Pain Can Surprise is the best in this aspect).
Steve Shufton came up with a great idea of how to load bill into a nest of envelopes. Kudos for the creativity. What he did not come up with, however, is a workable routine. The vanish given in the routine that comes with the instructions looks terrible and would immediately draw suspicion to the envelopes. The whole idea of a 'nest' is that it goes nowhere near the vanished item. Also, what is the justification (i.e. at least a minimal patter that makes sense should have been supplied). Peter Loughran came up with a great vanished ring revelation. Unfortunately he failed to come up with a good ring vanish. His vanish relies on having the spectator hold on to a piece of thin paper and not feel that it's empty! Then the paper is burnt - WHY? What about having a half-working patter for the first half of the trick? Devin Knight came up with a way to make a paint can sound 'marbled', loaded with a ring and empty. An excellent way, I must add. The problem is that the whole ring-vanish part is very iffy. Without going into too much detail it involves a Bobo-switch kinda move and then dropping the ring in the pocket while bringing out a pen that is not in any way used, with a patter-line that breaks the whole flow of the routine (I'm going to spray your ring, let me get a pen that I won't use, hey my paint can is now marble-less). I have a problem with buying something that is billed as a workable trick only to find that it's just a utility device or move which I still have to work out how to incorporate into my routine. When someone sells a trick it should be ready to use. Ps. On the other end of the spectrum I recently bought Whit Haydn's Mongolian Pop-Knot routine. That's how a marketed product should look like. I can't reccomend it highly enough. |
meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
No one agrees or disagrees?
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evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
Well, I like Emergency Cash. So far, no one has questioned why I use the envelopes.
Here is another rave review for Emergency Cash by one of our Café members - http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=109
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
joseph Eternal Order Please ignore my 17407 Posts |
Me too...IMO, Emergency Cash is a great effect, and coming up with an alternate vanish should be fairly easy....I don't have the other 2 items....
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
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Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
Hello Meilechi,
As the creator of FireFlight, and in defense of what you said, the spectator is not supposed to "HOLD" on to the paper containing the ring but rather just keep the hands cupped over top of it to make sure nothing leaves or enters the folded paper. This type of "Test Condition" if you will is used a lot in magic (not neccessarily with paper and a ring, but with other objects), and has been used by many of the greats in magic over the decades. As to the "WHY" Im not sure why you are having problems with your patter, as it mentions in the sample routine that you are supposed to be telling them the story of the ancient legend of the Phoenix,(Refering to their ring as the relation to the Phoenix) how it is burned and then re-born from fire(as the legend states). I put a lot of thought into the routine from start to finish, and I have never been quesioned on the WHY, since it is explained to the spectators in the story. I honestly don't see the issue. I appologize if I mis-understood what you wrote. P.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
magicman1 Inner circle 1183 Posts |
LOVE emergency cash..Have my own vanish and blows people away
Don |
meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
Dear Mr Loughran,
In holding the hands cupped over the plate for the amount of time it takes for you to make the origami ring and talk about the phoenix do you not think it is highly likely that her hands relax for a moment and realise that the paper is empty? Also where does the origami ring come into the phoenix presentation? Why are you making the paper ring? If you were doing it after the first ring is burnt it might make more sense as you would be offering to replace it with the paper one. As soon as I saw the demo I realised how the trick worked. I bought the trick to find out the finer points of the handling and presentation. In a routine like FireFlight the presentation is essential to the trick. This should have been included. While I didn't expect to get your full spiel complete with all the heavy talk or gags I did expect at least some kind of point-by-point patter. Evolve, Joseph & Magicman, You're proving my point. So does anyone who gives a 'rave-review' for this product. You're only praising the ingenuity of the loading device while ignoring the fact that the trick is sold as a working trick. Steve Shufton has come up with a strong 'nest-of-envelopes' device but not with a workable trick! He should have come up with a working routine before selling it. In it's present form it is unfinished. |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
So burn it first and vanish the ring, DONE! I could never even imagine a lay person questioning any of this, but you seemed to answer your own question, burn and vanish the ring first if it suits your patter better.
And a big no as for the ring being noticed, Nope never in a million years as there is far to much paper for such a small ring for ANYONE to notice that, even if their hand became relaxed, c'mon now. And if you are so worried about that, put a bowl over it instead or something, at least use your creativity if you are going to run when you are not being chased! P.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
Meilechl, I understand where you are coming from. However, a lot of magic effects (not that I'm trying to justify) are just boom and here you go. Such as WOW, UV Nightshade or Warp One, etc. The value is in its "puzzle" factor and visual compliment. Now that I think about it, EC is like a super duper "Buddha Money Mystery" that I enjoy so much and I have fooled many with Buddha Money Mystery. The effect of EC is much stronger and it's something when the venue calls for.
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
Mr Loughran,
If I would have been creative enough I wouldn't have had to buy your routine! The vanish itself is quite basic. The idea of producing something from a flash (or changing the flash paper for the real thing) is very old and done by most bird magicians + many others. John Cornelius has quite a few variations on this idea. What I expected when I bought your trick was a routine. A sequence of moves that have some logic and bring about the effect. Basic patter to justify those moves. This wasn't supplied. In essence this means that all I gained from buying this trick is the idea of reproducing a vanished ring in a flash of fire. This is the kind of idea one usually finds for free in 'Secret Sessions' or 'Double Dare You'. Having said that, I must admit that there is one new idea in this trick: the alternate ending. Albeit without any decent presentation, it's a nice touch nonetheless. Evolve, If it's only a utility device it should be sold as such, not as a working trick. After doing my borrowed bill to nest of envelopes (I hope to post it one day) I constantly hear people saying, "He couldn't have slipped it in - the envelope was on the table from the beginning". In every good bill to impossible location the bill doesn't go anywhere near the impossible location. With EC it's the envelopes that facilitate the vanish, drawing the heat to them. |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
Patter: Well that's where we disagree, I feel the story provided ties in the vanish very nicely, the story of the Phoenix is burned and then reborn from fire, I still don't see the issue here. Does this not make sense for anyone else reading this, Im just asking.
Vanish: And yes that was my point about the vanishing the ring in flash paper, this Test Condition is a tried and tested vanish that you were complaining about. Now It seems you agreed. The wierd thing is you would have watched this on the demo, so one would think you would see what type of vanish was supplied with the effect. To me I feel the routine is a complete, beautiful and intimate piece of magic with a wonderful story behind it. Im sorry you feel different. P.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
Christopher Williams Inner circle Portsmouth, UK 4464 Posts |
Meilechl, Shufton released his version of a trick he has used to great reactions and performed countless times. What works for one person, might not work for others. I will use myself as an example...when I create my own routines, I create them for me. For MY working environment, based on my personal experience with the type of audiences I am marketed towards. So when I release the effects, there are going to be people who won't like them, as they are created with myself in mind. I tip the method of how to accomplish it, and perform it as I do, but it is up to the buyer to change it to suit themself. Now, with Emergency Cash...a simple false transfer will work as you pick up the envelopes and move them forwarc a little towards a spectator, you load the bill. Then vanish the bill, and off you go. Be creative, find what suits you best, but don't call it an unfinished product. That goes for all the products here listed, make them your own, don't perform it how the creator listed it and then complain, because you have to bare in mind that it was created for themselves to use.
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montemagic Elite user San Diego, CA 471 Posts |
I agree that Paint Can Surprise could use a little more work. It is definitely not worth the price, it is a decent idea, but not completely thought out.
It makes me leary of purchasing any other Devin Knight effects.
Aim To Amaze
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meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
Re vanish: It seems you misunderstood me. When I wrote that the vanish is quite basic I meant the part the performer knows about, not what happens from a spectator's point of view. And when I wrote that it's basic I didn't mean to say not good; I meant to say that it's nothing revolutionary.
All in all, in the way of moves and sleights, FireFlight has nothing new to offer. What is does ostensibly offer is the routine. The story that ties all the moves together. Therefore I feel there should have been more of that. It should be more than just an idea of patter to tie the whole thing together. In order to make this work for me I'm gonna need to put in a lot of work to think up the patter to make this work. I now need to find a way to make every move make sense. To build up the suspense. To milk the effect. I need to do all this. So what did I buy? A semi-baked idea of presentation? I'll recap: Fire Flight isn't about some great gimmick or revolutionary sleghts. It's a routine. That is what I should've received. Mr Williams I have already tried doing it that way but it doesn't work for me. I do mainly parlour style magic and a bluff vanish (in the hand) doesn't work well with a large crowd. Ingenuity in theory doesn't mean that it actually works. As like most others magicians I read and re-read the AoA series. I hardly do any of it but it's worth reading just for the sheer genius of the effects and methods, even though many of the tricks are not suited for the real world. In the same way, I'm highly impressed by the simple ingenuity of the loading mechanism. As a workers trick however, it fails. |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
Hi Meilica,
It just gets confusing when you were complaining about the "WHY", as you first stated, now it is that I didn't provide a script, but rather a basis in which the routine should be scripted. I will never supply a "SCRIPTED"(meaning written word by word or line by line) routine, as I feel that every performer should have their own style to a presentation. The reason is I hate to see mundane and repeated presentations, and I always hated that about magic products, and never have I personally used a scripted routine that would be used by every other magician in the world that was supplied with a trick. Instead I supply the story that will go with an effect. I only offer "Scripted" words or lines, if it was absolutely neccessary for the effect or misdirection, and I have also often included scritped routines written by other magicians for a particular product. I have however scripted out all of the moves and while there may not be some reveloutionary gimmick involved, I have supplied the steps and moves in which the effect should be performed, as well as the story and the reasoning behind the effect, and I feel I should be credited for combining all of those moves to the story. Also there are some moves which have not been introduced in magic such as the alternate ending. I might also add that the routine can be performed while just telling the story in segments as the moves are performed. It is ok to be silent at times during an effect espicially such as one as intimate as Fire Flight. You don't need to be talking every second and for every move. I find this effect most effective with very little talking with a little background music in an intimate setting. So if you know how it works then why buy it then right? Well it is nice to get credit for combining all of those things together in an enteraining effect, that until I released it, no one would have thought to do it. I understand that this is not a question of ethics, but I think we may understand each other better. Thanks for your comments, P.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca Follow me on Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/peter.loughran.9 Check out my new movie: www.plasterrockmovie.com www.globaluniversal.com Also visit: www.l2fireworks.com |
meilechl Special user 657 Posts |
I see your point. I have a big gig coming up in a few weeks where I hope to perform it. I'll perform the alternate ending as it is much stronger. And that way I can get my money's worth...
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Emergency Cash, Fire Flight & Paint Can Surprise - honest review (0 Likes) |
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