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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Jeff Dunham & Achmed the Dead Terrorist (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Skip Way
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Curious how a discussion begun over a puppet has escalated into an argument over racial stereotypes, religious zealotry, military power and political ineptitude. Are we really not taking it all a little too seriously?
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The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-11-01 10:05, Skip Way wrote:
Curious how a discussion begun over a puppet has escalated into an argument over racial stereotypes, religious zealotry, military power and political ineptitude. Are we really not taking it all a little too seriously?


Hi Skip,

In all fairness.. the puppet is about racial stereotypes and religious zealotry so it was fair game. Its a touchy subject and thus not one best included in a comedy routine. Lets be honest.. its not really the puppet speaking..LOL Its a real person saying things like " Kill the Jews" A piece of wood on your hand shouldn't protect you from any waves your words might create.

Yes... the thread got too serious but as I predicted in the beginning of it..it was bound to happen when such a heated subject is broached.

Yes... Achmed is only a piece of wood. But then so again is a match. Both should stay away from subjects quick to enflame.

I think for the most part everyone behaved themselves and I for one enjoyed our little discussion. I don't see any harm done. It seems others had something to say as well as quite a few posts were made on both sides. I respect the opinions of all those who had a viewpoint on the subject. You'll note that we all settled down in the end when we realized we had gone about as far as we could without opening up something more serious. Lest hope some day the rest of the world can do that. LOL

Best,

Tim
Skip Way
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Tim, you're a good man. Hope to meet you one day...as long as you promise not to talk about puppets or matches. Smile Best to ya!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

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Rupert Bair
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Silence, I kill you.
The Drake
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On 2007-11-01 10:47, Matt Colman wrote:
Silence, I kill you.


Matt... Now THAT'S funny!

Skip... till we meet again. ( AND TALK MAGIC! LOL )

Best,

Tim
Josh Riel
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Doug spit at me, via post....

That reminds me of another time in U.S. history where people couldn't seem to grasp that they were spitting on the wrong people. My boss came back from Vietnam, he told me some stories. Odd how things change, and yet stay the same.

I love you too Doug (No spit). Although I'm arguing on the side of the Muslims, I don't necessarily disagree with you or even MagicSanta (How could I ever disagree with Santa, I know who he is under the Santa suit), or with Timothy. I am of the mind that in all cases the true answer does not lie in any extreme, but rather closer to the middle. Extreme ideas bring about radical change, reasonable ideas rarely do anything, but that doesn't make them less reasonable.

I completely disagree with Joey Stalin, that was a great clip, and no matter how he tries to hijack this thread, it's still a great clip. I really don't see the problems with the clip, just some of the sentiments that have crossed over to this very green place.


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Doug Higley
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I never spit at you or on you...that was an 'aside Pitooey'
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MagicSanta
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Josh has peeked under my tunic.
Corona Smith
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I bet there was a host of gopher squatters under there.
sparks
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On 2007-10-28 16:18, MagicSanta wrote:
My favorite in law, a Palestinian, says the Mosad attacked on 911. I just don't discuss it with him, kind of sad really.


That IS sad...
Sparks

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gabelson
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As a comedy writer for the past 30 years who has witnessed the winds blowing in every directions, I can say without reservation that political correctness is the death of humor. The P.C. mania has died down a bit from where it was in the 90's, still, a show like "All In the Family" would probably not get greenlit by a major network today. It could only exist on cable. The Achmed routine is not nearly as edgy and racially charged as most South Park episodes. That doesn't mean we can't be sensitive. Imus was insensitive. Why? Because he wasn't funny. If the writing is insightful, and highlights the human condition; our own fears and predjudices in an intelligent, funny way, racial humor can work: ie; "All In the Family", "South Park", "Team America", etc. If it ISN'T funny, and simply mean-spirited, THAT'S when it becomes offensive. Don't forget folks, the routine is NOT Achmed the MUSLIM, but Achmed the dead TERRORIST. So are we objecting to dead terrorists?
Rupert Bair
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I think 9/10 dead terrorists would be offended at this. For starters for grossly exaggerating there height, come on as if they where that big.
The Drake
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On 2007-11-20 19:36, gabelson wrote:
The P.C. mania has died down a bit from where it was in the 90's, still, a show like "All In the Family" would probably not get greenlit by a major network today. Don't forget folks, the routine is NOT Achmed the MUSLIM, but Achmed the dead TERRORIST. So are we objecting to dead terrorists?


Hello Gabelson,

I really like All in the Family. It was edgy humor but really made fun of bigotry and not really of races or religion. It also has some VERY good writing. You are right that a PC movement led to it vanishing from television for a while. I think that PC movement didn't watch the show or they would have seen what it was really about.

I'd like to correct you on one thing though. Achmed was not only a terrorist but was indeed featured as a Muslim in Jeffs routine. He specifically refers to Alah ,72 virgins..etc which reflected his Muslim faith.

The topic got pretty heated and I'm surprised and happy the mods did not delete it or remove it. Open discussion is a good thing and we had lots of that here.

And.. yes a dead terrorist is a good thing. Even if its only a "flesh wound" ( my favorite line from the routine) LOL

Best,

Tim
balducci
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Tim really hit it on the head. The routine might be called "Achmed the dead Terrorist" but many people inherently perceive it as "Achmed the dead MUSLIM Terrorist". Many of the jokes have nothing to do with terrorism, and everything to do with Muslim stereotypes.

And, also, Jewish [cheap] and Catholic [homosexual priests] sterotypes. When the puppet told the joke about the Jews fighting over the penny, what were people in the audience really laughing at? If someone relates that joke to a colleague at work the next day, are they making some sort of satirical insight or are they perpetuating a stereotype?

I think the concept behind the routine was good (a dead terrorist puppet), but I think its reliance on stereotypes (Muslim, Jew, and Catholic) for cheap laughs reduces its effectiveness in some ways.
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MagicSanta
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Why haven't they declared a death warrant for the guys at South Park? Those poor Dutch guys are on the list, I think the South Park guys were hoping for some press.
The Drake
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On 2007-11-20 23:35, MagicSanta wrote:
Why haven't they declared a death warrant for the guys at South Park? Those poor Dutch guys are on the list, I think the South Park guys were hoping for some press.


Good point. I think the answer is that South Park is an equal opportunity offender. They pick on everyone and thus single out nobody. Does that make sense? LOL

I enjoy the show but have been known to turn if off when they cross the line from time to time. Even South Park characters know when they cross the line. Remember the Christopher Reeve episode where he main characters kept walking off screen because they didn't want to be part of that episode? I thought that was pretty clever.

I thought it was small of Issac Hayes to leave the show when they picked on his religion after he had participated in picking on ALL the others for so many years.

Best,

Tim
balducci
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This is old news, but South Park was being cleaned up for syndication:

http://adweek.blogs.com/adfreak/2005/09/cleaning_up_sou.html

But more likely the episodes especially offensive to Muslims, say, were simply not broadcast in certain foreign markets.

Much like the comic strip "For Better or For Worse" gets censored sometimes, so that some of its daily strips do not appear in certain markets.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
MagicSanta
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Doesn't matter, they showed the image of Mohammed, they must die...it is only fair.
GlenD
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LOL
So much already said. Quite frankly, I am and have been sick and tired of all the sensitivity b.s. over stereotyping or profiling in society in general... blah blah blah.
You know people are people and it's funny to make fun of each other. When it goes beyond humor for humors sake etc and becomes obvious racism or hate then that's different. And it is usually very obvious to tell the difference. There are times when profiling is just common sense. It's noticing and acknowledging differences in groups of people. Whoopee! Guess what, we are all different and in some respects unique but we do fall into certain categories. Deal with it. And nothing is wrong with someone pointing out differences and making a joke about it. it's always been that way and always will. Political correctness and the subtle ways it attempts to control society needs to be thrown out altogether.
More later, I got to go now. Just had to chime in here, however late to the party I am.

GlenD

p.s.- I saw the bit on comedy central weeks ago and thought it was sort of funny for a while (especially the visual) but not as good as it could have been.
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balducci
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On 2007-11-21 15:26, GlenD wrote:

You know people are people and it's funny to make fun of each other. When it goes beyond humor for humors sake etc and becomes obvious racism or hate then that's different. And it is usually very obvious to tell the difference.

So just to be clear, you're saying the joke in Achmed the Terrorist's routine about Jews being cheap and fighting over a penny and the joke about Catholic bishops fighting over a little boy for sexual gratification are funny, and that is just good clean fun? You say it is funny to be make fun of each other. Who is being made fun of here, the "Jews" and "Catholics". That's okay? You think the average Jew and Catholic bishop shares in the joke as much as you do?
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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