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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Jeff Dunham & Achmed the Dead Terrorist (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicSanta
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Islam is not a race so there is no way it can be refered to as racism. I've not said anything insulting to Muslims, neither has Big Jeff. Facts are facts though and here is the rub....your desire to embrace the whole world as one people united in love and understand means absolutely nothing outside of your own physical reach. If someone has a gun and they plan on shooting you your position on things doesn't have anything to do with him shooting you or not. Some times you have to fight because the other guy is forcing the situation.

You continue with the Japanese. There was a significant difference between the Japanese in Japan and the Americans of Japanese descent living in the United States (by the way, why is it the other countries who interned their Japanese and German residents never mentioned? Guess it isn't as fun as pointing fingers at the United States). The US was the US as a country of relative freedoms, not perfect at that time but who was? Japan was a country run by an Emporor viewed as a God by the populace and a military dictator basically and as a warrior culture which had a war mentality. They are not the same people, to believe that Japanese Americans are the same as Japanese is a class of racism on your part. Let me assure you that the Japanese Americans I was raised around (our high school football team was about 70% Japanese American) were nothing at all like the wonderful people of Japan in any manner except for physical appearance and even then there was a different look and way they carried themselves. Another thing, they were Americans not Japanese unless they were born in and citizens of Japan. That is another unique thing about a handful of countries, I could be born in and raised in Japan and I would never, ever, be Japanese, but anyone can become an American.

Keep riding your tall horse thinking that you are defending the militant Muslims out there because if they had their way you and your family would be just as dead as those that were crushed on 9-11. Also don't worry about the Japanese Americans, no one is locking them up anywhere unless they break a law. For you to think, as you imply, that the US is just waiting to do so in order for you to jump up and say "No! Don't lock them up, eh!" is utter nonsense.

By the way, the internment of Japanese Americans and the loss of their land, which was a terrible event, wasn't a policy througout the US. It took place on the West Coast, the rounding up of Germans took place on the East Coast, I'll let you figure out why that geographical dicernment was made. My father told me that in NYC where he lived, in a German area, all the German accents quickly vanished and Dieter became Danny.

You state I judged and entire race, looks to me like you were the one doing so.
The Drake
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Magic Santa,

Too make you happy I'll replace the word Racism with Prejudice. How bout that?

Why do you keep thinking I have anything against the Japanese? I'm simply saying it was once politically acceptable to stereotype them and now were are supposed to be above that. Above that means no more stereotyping..not simply switching groups.

Now you're saying there are two types of Japanese? Why can't there be two types of Muslims??? My point was that they were ALL being judged by the actions of some.

I don't think we are all one big happy world but I do know that ethic stereotypes like this don't help the situation much.

The US got mentioned only because Big Jeff mentioned it. I was only responding to his post. Canada was just a guilty. We had our own internment camps here.

Who said I was defending the militant Muslims. I'm defending the Billion Muslims not connected with such nonsense.

Your comment on Deiter becoming Danny is most interesting. I grew up in Dresden ( Canada) and only a short drive away you can get to Kitchener which before WW1 was known as Berlin.

The G in Edward G Robinson stood for Goldstein. The stereotypes of that day meant denying your religion publicly was necessary to put food on the table if that table depended on public opinion.

My only point is that this shouldn't have happened and should not be happening today.

Best,

Tim
MagicSanta
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Prejudiced is better because racism implies the belief in ones race being superior to others (oddly this is a trait often attributed to Asian races). I didn't say you had something against the Japanese people, I was informing you that there is a significant difference between Japanese Americans and Japanese as in those born and raised in Japan. It is because culture has more in play than race. Just because they look similar doesn't make them the same.

Interesting, a billion Muslims and it is considered by experts that a mear ten percent are 'militant or support the militant position'. That would mean there are only a measly ten million people out there that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if you were to be blown to lil' chunks in their name. Ten million...that is roughly one third the population of Canada, seems like a lot of people to me.

Just keep in mind, no on anywhere on this thread said anything about all of anyone being anything yet you keep defending against it. Keep fighting windmills.

PS: if you have a problem with the puppet guy contact him.
Brian Proctor
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I just watched the video. I thought it was hilarious!!! Just relax everyone.
The Drake
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Quote:

Interesting, a billion Muslims and it is considered by experts that a mear ten percent are 'militant or support the militant position'. That would mean there are only a measly ten million people out there that wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if you were to be blown to lil' chunks in their name. Ten million...that is roughly one third the population of Canada, seems like a lot of people to me.

P.S.: if you have a problem with the puppet guy contact him.

So that makes 990,000,000 innocent Muslims that have to watch this stuff stereo type them? Its ok to rag on them because of the other 10 percent???

FYI.. I did contact Jeff through his website. No response. I expect it got lost with many others.

Best,

Tim


For the record. Both Magic Santa and I were wrong in our math.

10% of one billion is 100 million, not 10 million. That leaves 900 million left and not 990 million as I posted. LOL

Best,

Tim
paisa23
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Oh wow, the bit is funny, I have this DVD. That's my Opinion, the "Ill KILLyou" is Hilarious. I honestly think we are way to sensitive now adays, my opinion ill leave it at that.
MagicSanta
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100 million hate filled Muslims? That makes me feel better. I doubt many of them watched the show in question so no harm no foul.

I have an announcement to make:

During World War Two the racist collective known as Canada interned people of Japanese decent....a total of 22,000 of them in fact. Canada, forcing people from their homes and locking them into camps. Unlike the US, which kept families together, Canada sent the men to.....WORK CAMPS with out their families. It should also be noted that the US allowed the interned to file suits against the policy, no record of this in Canada, and that the US ended the practice in 1944, five years before the hate filled Canadians. The US also paid money to the Japanese Americans and others of Japanese ancenstory detained (not enough in my opinion because many lost farm lands worth millions today) and issued an apology, again I could find no record of this occuring in Canada. It should also be noted that the thousands of German, Italian, and other European (that is right kids, caucasians) that were put into internment camps were not paid nor did they, as of 2004, receive an official apology.

I swear before God and man that I shall NEVER allow Canada to take advantage of a race of people like that again!
Dannydoyle
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Funy no doubt.

I think my point was that it is odd that if it was not a vent doll and just Jeff, he never would get away with it now would he?

Everyone who attacked on 9/11 was a Muslim. That is a fact and not in dispute. (Well if you leave out crazy conspiracy theories with George W. Bush LOL)

Not EVERY MUSLIM attackted the US on that day though. This is the only distinction I think needs to be made. Not every Muslim demonstrates against the US.

If we paint all of them with the one brush, call it what you will it is wrong. I think this kind of encourages that sort of thing.

BUT in all fairness in deference to the country in which I proudly reside, he has the right to say it!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
MagicSanta
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My favorite in law, a Palestinian, says the Mosad attacked on 911. I just don't discuss it with him, kind of sad really.
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-28 16:16, MagicSanta wrote:
100 million hate filled Muslims? That makes me feel better. I doubt many of them watched the show in question so no harm no foul.



There you go again avoiding the issue. What about the other 900 million? Will you address that? You admit there are 900 million innocent bystanders yet remain silent on that regard. Forget all the attempts at misdirection with political spin... lets hear your wisdom on the other 900 million.

The harm is not in Muslims watching it. The harm is in non muslims watching it and having it validate or insight stereotypes.

The Mossad reference from your Palestinian friend is interesting. He doesn't support terrorism and want to dance in the streets about 911? Could it be he is not an extremist and one of those 900 million? I wonder how he'd like this performance.

Would you ask him for a comment?

Best,

Tim
stoneunhinged
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I just watched it myself, and was frankly surprised at how innocuous it is. Most of the jokes are very generic--double entendres and such, like the couple of jokes at the end--and are in no way Muslim specific. The puppet (COOL PUPPET!) has a Middle East accent. Hmmm. Oh, and the virgins joke. Other than that, I don't really see how it is stereotyping anybody--other than a very small group (Middle Eastern suicide bombers) who really do exist. Why should this small group of people be beyond our barbs of ridicule? I say have at 'em.

I mean, come on Tim! If you and I can laugh at Mel Brooks and Tim Conway (not to mention this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5l5UIbSpc), then we can't very well get all sensitive all of the sudden. Or are Germans somehow exempt from our making fun of them by adopting fake German accents and such? Hey, I have my American accent made of almost daily by some of my students. Of course, they're going to suffer for it during finals....

As far as taste goes, compared to the popular culture being consumed by our young people this comedy bit is exceedingly tame. And a little bad taste is often the source of some of the funniest humor ever devised by man.

And as I said: COOL PUPPET!

Jeff
MagicSanta
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Timothy, I can't speak about Canada with its history of locking up people based on race but I've not heard anyone here wanting to lock up Muslims and I'm not sure where you get the idea from. The guy has the right to do the act he wants and you and everyone else can either watch it or not. I know in Canada you all restrict what is on radio etc but we don't really do that here to the extent you all do. You went after Big Jeff, you were looking for loopholes to do so, and you have no basis to go after him. You are in a snit over a puppet!

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm just overwhelmed with your support of all people around the world and if space aliens existed I'm sure you would be standing right there with them. You sir are a modern day Martin Luther King Jr (I would have picked a Canadian but I never heard of a Canadian civil rights leader), you are enlightened, you are an angel on Earth. There, do you feel better? Can you now knock off trying to build an igloo out of an ice cube?
MagicSanta
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I forgot, you wanted my wisdom on the 'other 900 million'. I'd like to see them control the 100 million that are causing all the problems. Heck, I'd like to see a dozen of their leaders out of that 900 million have the guts to tell the 100 million they are flat out wrong and that they are poisoning the religion and then try to turn the tide. They won't though....I wonder why? Say, go to your local mosque and tell 'em you know that they are your pals, I'm sure they'd appreciate your support in these trying times.
MagicSanta
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Update! My brother in law called and he saw the puppet skit that I sent him. He watched it with his brother and his non-Arab wife. The brother in law and his brother, both Arabs, thought it was funny, the non-Arab wife didn't get it but she has little sense of humor if any. So there you have it.... the brother in law who thinks Mosad did the attacks is at work and didn't see it.
Dannydoyle
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I gotta say this.

IF you are going to pick a group to "insult", for lack of a better term, you have to admit the following.

Pick on a group such as suicide bombers. I mean really who is going to care? They don't have too big a following after all. They by definition can't be too large a group!
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-28 17:11, stoneunhinged wrote:

I mean, come on Tim! If you and I can laugh at Mel Brooks and Tim Conway (not to mention this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5l5UIbSpc), then we can't very well get all sensitive all of the sudden. Or are Germans somehow exempt from our making fun of them by adopting fake German accents and such? Hey, I have my American accent made of almost daily by some of my students. Of course, they're going to suffer for it during finals....


And as I said: COOL PUPPET!

Jeff


OK... so the puppet is cool. You got me there as all of Jeffs puppets are cool.

I can laugh at Tim Conway in the SS uniform because he is wearing that uniform and poking fun at the personality in the uniform. The humor there is in the hitler puppet and how its so redicilous trying to intimidate the prisoner. The Mel Brooks " Producers" humor is again making fun of a regime ( did I spell that right? ) much like Chaplin did in the Great Dictator.

Jeffs routine was very creative (all his are). The execution of the performance is fantastic. He walks a tight rope here and much of it is cutting edge but he does in my opinion cross the line. When Achmed calls him a " Racist B*stard" for not allowing Jews in a bar..that is cutting edge and funny. When Achmed offers to " Kill the Jews" I think that is stepping over the line. The joke about the Jews fighting to death over the penny is not only very old offensive to many. The priest joke was also beneath Jeffs usual stuff.

I'm guessing most think that using the puppet is different than actually saying things. If a comedian told the Jew joke directly to the audience would it be as acceptable. If a Muslim heckled Jeff during a show and HE hollered out.."You Terrorist" in a method similar to Michael Richards...would that be ok?

As I stated when I first chimed in. This video is very popular and I am in the minority in thinking it offensive to anyone. I'm wondering though if any who would defend it would feel comfortable playing this routine for their Muslim friends.

I was supposed to be spending the afternoon rehearsing a new routine for a show tomorrow and have instead spent it yaking here. ( against windmills as MagicSanta says .. LOL )

I best get back to that routine lest I suck tomorrow.

Best,

Tim
Joey Stalin
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Acting way too PC people. lol
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
-The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything.

See you space cowboy...
Dannydoyle
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The part that is distubing is that if it wasn't the puppet it could not be done.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-28 17:28, MagicSanta wrote:
Timothy, I can't speak about Canada with its history of locking up people based on race but I've not heard anyone here wanting to lock up Muslims and I'm not sure where you get the idea from. The guy has the right to do the act he wants and you and everyone else can either watch it or not. I know in Canada you all restrict what is on radio etc but we don't really do that here to the extent you all do. You went after Big Jeff, you were looking for loopholes to do so, and you have no basis to go after him. You are in a snit over a puppet!

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm just overwhelmed with your support of all people around the world and if space aliens existed I'm sure you would be standing right there with them. You sir are a modern day Martin Luther King Jr (I would have picked a Canadian but I never heard of a Canadian civil rights leader), you are enlightened, you are an angel on Earth. There, do you feel better? Can you now knock off trying to build an igloo out of an ice cube?


Another attempt at misdirection from the topic? Or just more spin to create controversy on the Café. I told you in a PM once that I fell for your " lets get some Canadian flames going" once but won't again. I won't argue with any of your Canada nonsense any more.

Never heard of a Canadian Civil Rights leader? Look up the Underground Railroad sometime.

Who said anything about locking up Muslims based on race? Who mentioned Guantanamo Bay? Not me. But since you brought it up....LOL

Go after Big Jeff? I didn't attact Big Jeff I defended innocent people. What happened to that free speech you boast on? The only attacks on this thread are in your posts.

You could have simply debated that you didn't see the video as insulting to anyone but instead you defended it by attacking Muslims as terrorists. Now you say you have Muslim relatives. I'm thinking you're back to your old games of " lets create some flames on the Café"

Now I understand why you post anonymously.
Joey Stalin
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I think you're the one distracting or twisting from the topic. You don't like it, and your point to continue stating this is? I guess if I post anything from Dave Chappelle's show you'll hijack the thread and rant as well? lol Kind of makes me happy posts in this forum don't add to post counts lol Eh, all I have to say on this to you on this topic heh.

lol it was almost as good as his act with Walter.
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
-The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything.

See you space cowboy...
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