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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Jeff Dunham & Achmed the Dead Terrorist (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Drake
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On 2007-10-31 10:03, stoneunhinged wrote:
That's not what I read in a Chick tract last week.


Hi Stoneunhinged,

I just looked up Chick Tracks on google and discovered what they were. Yes they seem to put a different view on things. I'd prefer to let a Muslim tell me who Allah is than someone from another religion with an agenda.

Ask a Muslim who Allah is and he'll tell you its the " God of Abraham". Ask any Muslim if Allah spoke to Moses on the Mountain and he'll tell you yes.

Best,

Tim
The Drake
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On 2007-10-31 10:14, Joey Stalin wrote:
Yeah, Tim, can you stop being a troll and can we get this back on topic?


Topic???

Joey,

Sorry you are upset that you posted how much you liked this video and I had problems with it. Read the thread and you'll see that the topic IS regarding the video being offensive or not offensive. When you posted it what did you expect? Maybe you'd get some responses with " Cool" or " Nice Video" ? What else can be discussed about it when its edgy stuff.

When the topic is the controversy of a stereotype.....discussing the object of the stereotype is not off topic. Many others have offered opinions and its lead to some interesting discussion but you have only popped in from time to time to say I have pulled it off topic. Why don't you post something ON topic if you think there is another topic I am pulling away from. What is the topic in your eyes? The video right? Then the controversy of the video is open for discussion.

We're all big boys here. We've remained civil and done nothing against Café rules. If you think we have wandered off topic then report the thread and let the Café mods decide if we have crossed he " off topic " line. If they don't pull it then please quit posting with insults asking me to get back on topic.

Best,

Tim
Leland Stone
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Hi, Tim:

I appreciate your comments about good Muslims in Canada behaving in law abiding, society-supportive ways that are ignored by the media. It is true that such stories are far less likely to get ink than, say, the Shoe Bomber incident.

But my point is not that there are "good" Muslims -- those who are civilly responsible and respectful of their host culture. Rather, it is their inexplicable and virtually total lack of condemnation towards zealous, murderous factions within Islam that I addressed.

Let me give an example from another faith: Some persons who claim to be Christians and do the "work of God" have been protesting at the funerals of American soldiers. These miscreants have behaved monstrously, "thanking" God for the soldiers' deaths and for "God's judgment" on immoral America. Other Christians, rather than standing by in silence, have openly and loudly condemned these morons for being irreligious beasts perverting and misrepresenting Christianity. The point of my prior post was that such denominational self-policing is nearly absent in the Muslim community; due to fear of reprisal, feelings of solidarity, or other motivation, the Islamic leadership [most specifically, CAIR] is virtually silent when it should be taking an unequivocal and high-visibility moral stand.

There are individual Muslims who protest the jihadists, of course, just as there were individual Christians who protested Nazism. But as the German church in the 1930s -- in its role as coporate representative of the Christian faith -- was immorally silent against Nazism, so Muslim leadership has been derelict in fighting jihadism. The German church became the puppet of the Reich; will Islam allow itself to become the sword of the terrorists?

Leland
Josh Riel
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O.K. so we have decided that the original film is funny, but evil, but really not evil, but really evil. It will cause death, but it will only save lives.... I think Jeff Dunham would be proud to be responsible for such responses. What we all need to do is bow our heads in prayer, to my god of course (I worship the Devil so you'll need some baby fat candles). Don't disparage my god or my people, and if you are offended by my beliefs or have preconceived notions about it, you are evil as Mr. Dunham.

Anyone who disagrees is a communist
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
MagicSanta
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I just realized the Canuckers think Americans are roaming the streets beating Muslims and Hindus confused with Muslims. That is utter nonsense. Those acts are few and far between yet greatly focused on by the media. There is stereotyping going on here, and it is against the good ol' USA. I'm so abused.....
Josh Riel
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Those Canadians are all alike; with their speech impediments and the way they are so prejudiced... Makes me kind of sad.
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The Drake
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On 2007-10-31 12:48, Leland Stone wrote:
Hi, Tim:

I appreciate your comments about good Muslims in Canada behaving in law abiding, society-supportive ways that are ignored by the media. It is true that such stories are far less likely to get ink than, say, the Shoe Bomber incident.

But my point is not that there are "good" Muslims -- those who are civilly responsible and respectful of their host culture. Rather, it is their inexplicable and virtually total lack of condemnation towards zealous, murderous factions within Islam that I addressed.

Let me give an example from another faith: Some persons who claim to be Christians and do the "work of God" have been protesting at the funerals of American soldiers. These miscreants have behaved monstrously, "thanking" God for the soldiers' deaths and for "God's judgment" on immoral America. Other Christians, rather than standing by in silence, have openly and loudly condemned these morons for being irreligious beasts perverting and misrepresenting Christianity. The point of my prior post was that such denominational self-policing is nearly absent in the Muslim community; due to fear of reprisal, feelings of solidarity, or other motivation, the Islamic leadership [most specifically, CAIR] is virtually silent when it should be taking an unequivocal and high-visibility moral stand.

Leland


Thanks Leland,

NOW I get what you were saying. You have a good point. I also think more Muslims should speak up but I have to guess they have their reasons not to. Maybe they are afraid to speak up publicly for fear of reprisal. Many of us here in the Café are afraid to speak up on subjects they believe in because its not in their best interest or popular to do so. I don't suffer much from that fear (LOL) and its caused me a bit of grief now and then. You'll note in my first post in the thread I predicted I'd be in a minority as Jeffs video is popular.

I agree with your point though Leland. As much as white america may have protested Segregation it would NOT have been defeated if not for Rosa Parks and others like here who were willing to do something herself instead of waiting for others to do it for her.

Best,

Tim
Bill Nuvo
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Every Muslim I know says they do not condone the acts on 9/11. Problem is that it doesn't sell newspapers and is often buried in the "to the editor" sections if anywhere at all. On T.V. it is the same thing. Only what sells ad space is reported more.

This is truly what we are talking about here. What is focused on by the media and thusly relayed to the public at large.
Josh Riel
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The saddest part is on some level every American knows what you're saying to be the truth Mr. Bill, but they forget it. Usually they forget it when they are told to by the very media establishments they know they cannot trust.....

We have turned into a bunch of weak minded suckers.

(I apologize for the lack of stupidity in this post)
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Bill Nuvo
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It's not just in the U.S. but worldwide that this happen Josh. I've seen it in my own family, I've seen it with me. I am not immune. This is why I've stopped watching the news.
Josh Riel
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<Family tale, stop reading now>

My mother was a very... difficult... woman to grow up with, however she said one thing that she lived by and was great advice: "Don't believe nothin' you hear and only half of what you see"

As she began to get older she started watching a lot of news, first CNN then FOX... Now the only things she has to say are mere parroting of these two news stations (Conservative side, but regardless). It is a sad thing when otherwise intelligent people are subverted by the desire to let other people decide how they think. No doubt it's easier, but you *** near lose your soul. And you certainly have no better grasp of whats happening in the world, you just are told to think you do. The third world nations are our only hope, they don't have many T.V.'s.
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Doug Higley
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Sorry Josh...We have the resources and educational system at our fingertips to FIND out the truth despite our corrupt media...they in the 3rd world remain ignorant, isolated and thus extremely dangerous...in the sand-lands all the uneducated have is the insane rantings of their Imams and a single book to guide them to their targets.

The best the radicals have to offer is to commit suicide. That's the fast track and the top of their food chain and a deep deep sickness. Did someone say 100 million? I'm sorry as hell but I don't give a crap that there are nice ones less nuts than others...not when my family is at stake. Bottom line guard the gates and aggressively protect and defend. Don't mess with me and mine and you can believe whatever you like and off yourselves to hell and your 72 Virgins all you want to.
There is no credibility for that crazy crap and being politically correct will get us dead.

In high school it was the peer group that got the ****** under control. Did you forget that? Other wise there would have been daily race riots. The 'nice' Muslims have to speak out...have to act and the only place this is taking place is in Iraq where the decent folks are trying to win back their sanity from the nut cases. Some Americans are giving all they have, lives and Treasure to help them get their life back. Give them the opportunity to have a real country again free of the despots...so grab onto it 'nice' Muslims and kick the crazy buggers to hell...it's your world being fought for...we are doing our best...I have my world and the loony amongst you ain't gonna get it. But if you stand up properly and fight for yourselves...you can share it. Sitting on your *** and watching my people die for it and only showing anger and passion if a cartoon is published ain't gonna cut it with me.

I don't give a rats ass for the political deceit and government nonsense...our guys that are over there are fighting for an ideal...not what Bush thinks or Harry Ried is afraid of under his bed...they went over and continue to go over there to help create a free society...and eliminate the threat to our own. Who cares about Bush and Clinton and why they do what they do or did what they did. The reason morale is high in the ranks and these heroes are signing up for even 3rd tours is that they believe what they are doing not Bush. Politicians don't motivate GIs to risk their lives...but the mission can and does and will till those people have the opportunity to stand on their own against the uncivilized garbage at their throats.
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The Drake
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Hi Doug,

Currently the US has the worlds most powerful military and have not been able to stop a nutjob from strapping on a bomb and walking into group of people . If the worlds most powerful military can't do it then how can a Muslim living in America do anything about it? Other than denounce it?

If its so easy why can't we stop kids from going Columbine on us here? A nutjob is a nutjob and they'll use any excuse they can for their actions. Religion is an easy one.

Best,

Tim
Josh Riel
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The problem is they (The "Nice" Muslims) might be fighting against it, and we might not be told.

However, with enough research, we could perhaps.

Resources to find the truth... If you can tell what is the truth from what isn't. The educational system? That is as suspect as the media when it comes to this sort of thing I think you would agree. But we do have to protect ourselves. What's a fella to do? Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

What a totally off-the-edge-of-the-flat-earth discussion this has turned to.

I think the video in question is awesome, I watched the whole Comedy Central Special with Jeff, it was really good. I would get the DVD, or steal it off the Internet.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-10-31 17:10, Josh Riel wrote:
The problem is they (The "Nice" Muslims) might be fighting against it, and we might not be told.



I'm thinking somewhere this same debate is going on in the Middle East. How many really know that the US is there to help? A bunch of US soldiers are on the ground surrounded by a different culture who looks at them as terrorists. The Soldiers are there to help but a house of civilians gets bombed in error or by a trigger happy few and then the locals say... " I told you..they're all evil" I don't care about all the others. We have to treat them all the same.

Hmmmm... same arguement fits both sides. Wrong both times and both sides lose.

I'm thinking the debate is getting a bit too political for Café standards. Its bound to happen as politics are so closely tied to the subject and in many cases the cause. If it continues to get more into politics and gets deleted I want to thank those who participated on the original stereotype topic. Ignoring or burying the issue does nothing but discussing it can only help. Many Thanks for your opinion no matter which position you took.


Best,

Tim
Doug Higley
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Tim...Muslims evrywhere can denounce the murders of children. Denounce it loudly. Keep it from speading. IF that is what they want. Or we can all let fear stop us. Those with fear will sit...like they sat before WW2 was taken to the perps. There are many with courage...were too dam* worried about the feelings of those without it. Prevent Mosques in this country from spreading the haterd and violence to NEW converts would be a start. Stand up and denounce it. Take a bullet if you have to...what the hell you think our guys are doing on their behalf?

Of course a Giant can't stop a Lice from getting in the hair...keeping it to that level is what is urgent...the occasional nut job...meanwhile other schools and communities prepare for their own nut job appearance and educate those who might think it's 'cool' to off a classroom.

I don't hear much denouncing do you? Fear is a strong deterrent and the only tool of terrorists..like I said the BEST they haven to offer is to kill themselves. Very hard to fight an enemy that WANTS to die with all their heart. The Iraqi people are dealing with their fear and standing up by the many thousands...taking a bullet...turning in that rat basturd that is planning the elimination of a crowded school bus. Where is the support? Too busy claiming GW Bush had the wrong reasons to go there. Well, our troops don't give a crap about his wrong reasons. There is passion and compassion and what is need is the equal from those whose religion is being hijacked and destroyed. Where are the volunteers on OUR side forming units like we did before WW2 to help the Chinese (Flying Tigers). They have all the money and weapons at their disposal in the world. They can do it. Yelling and tearing out the hair over a catrtoon in freakin' Denmark is more to the liking. Bull Crap. LOUD AND CLEAR. The Educated standing up to the Barbarians. this is a new concept? And I don't mean educated because they were taught from ONE book.

Next is Iran...high;y educated people there being subjugated by a monkey man. Give me a break. Fear needs to be beaten down as it was in conflicts past. There are always those who will put it on the line for those who cant or don't have the balls.

The old saw comes into play...Lead, Follow or get the hell out of the way.
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The Drake
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Hi Doug,

I think I am most sickened when I see on the news that a group of Iraqi police recruits were lost as they stood in line waiting to sign up. One nutjob takes them out and a bunch of those who wanted to help are gone.

I then see the same thing a few weeks later regards a new group. The only positive I can get from that is that it means more Iraqis were willing to line sign up after what happened to the group before them.

Lets hope they run out of nutjobs before we do those willing to help.

You are right that no matter how or why the US is there. They ARE there and we have to deal with it. I'm sure many Iraqis work hard to assist in the effort but as mentioned before you don't see that on the media in the same way that you don't see many US successes in the PR war either. Great things are being accomplished but only the bad things get the press. If memory serves correct the US Milatary even started a YouTube site to get the positive messages out but the viewership was mediocre as it got so little press.

Here's a sample of the stuff you rarely see... can't sell commercials this stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyG_q2xktk4 Call it propaganda if you'd like but it shows there is a hope but that hope has to start with a little trust first.

Best,

Tim
Josh Riel
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Let's be careful for denouncing a group for being silent when evil deeds are done by a minority of those within it.

Otherwise you condemn Christianity as surely as Muslims. For that matter every country, race or religion, including America.

Sure they aught to be brave in the face of adversity, but really only a very small minority will actually do so from any group. Who wants to die, sacrifice their family, all the things bad people do, just for the sake of "Doing the right thing"?

How did a puppet start this? More importantly, why did the puppet start this?
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MagicSanta
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Timothy, remember one thing, the US military has not attempted to stop them as of yet. Believe me, if our leadership wasn't so sensative and caring it would be a different story. The US military has proven itself to have the greatest of restraint, but we have also proven that at a given time, if allowed, we can be the most vicious mothers on the planet. Don't even assume what is going on in Iraq is what we are capable of. I am a veteran of conflict in the Mid East and if you want to discuss military issues then go find someone who was in the military and I'll discuss it with them.
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Yeah...this might be too political...I'm not a judge of that as I lost my filters a long time ago. I say what I say and if the monitors want to yank the chain, whatever.

Josh, I don't want to be careful. There are enough being careful. I don't condem or at least want to condem...what a waste of time...but the facts say when the sh** hits the fan America has been there. Every time. And there has always been ENOUGH with balls enough to do what's right. Unfortunately there have also been the cringing cowards in Washington willing to let them hang out to dry. We never lost a batle in Viet Nam. Not once. It was a strong rope of politics that prevented that victory. The whineing and the PC. We were there but not to win. That was the mistake. The same mistake that is shivering under it's desk right now in DC.

Josh says: "Sure they aught to be brave in the face of adversity, but really only a very small minority will actually do so from any group. Who wants to die, sacrifice their family, all the things bad people do, just for the sake of "Doing the right thing"?"

History says you are wrong. Look up the body count from Ancient times and on through today. Those who stand up are always there. Always. Many on this board were there...(including me) there are a million there now...millions and millions and millions...regardless the cause or country, there will always be enough to stand up for those who can't or won't. It's what young men are for (now many young women too) who are raised with a sense of obligation to others to step up to the plate and HONOR their roots and the Constitutuon.
.
We know what we are getting into...we know there are the self absorbed politicians cringing in the wings. Arabs are not cowards by any means...they just need the leadership willing to point the direction and lay out the consequences of failure.
These are very bad people in this fight against all civilization but what do you say we save an Owl intead...passion aplenty for that...of course Owls are blown to hell when a big one goes off.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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