How is this decided amongst buskers? If you busk and nothin' else then you're definitly full time. However, if you do shows and strolling events as well, then you're a full-time magician that busks part-time...or perhaps vice versa.

Likewise, if you have a primary job and busk on the weekends, you are a part-time busker.

So how is one a hobbiest busker? The whole point of busking is to make the cash. So, when does it cease to be a hobby and start to be a part-time job? Is it a certain percentage of one's yearly income to consider?

I for one am a part-time magician that busks sometimes. During my summers off, I busk regularly (well, last summer was the first time for this...but it'll be the norm for future summers)

I don't consider myself a hobbiest...more of a part timer who's new to busking. I make far too much money as an entertainer for magic to be called just a hobby of mine.

Where's the cut-off for buskers then?

And for the full time buskers out there. How many hours a week do you busk? Just curious about that for selfish reasons. I have trouble staying at a pitch longer than 4 hours. I just get antsy and move on...

Yes, I can relate to the 4 hour thing. I think my legs get tired standing that long.

I guess Cellini would be a full-time busker and part-time magician as even he admits to working paid gigs.

Probably one factor is how much traveling do you do. My guess is a full-time busker who stays at one pitch all year is going to have a tough time unless there is a constant influx of new tourists all year long. I think James in LA has a good spot for a full-time busker. I would venture to say the tourists on Hollywood Blvd. would be changing by the hour!

If you have money to pay the bills and you just go out for the fun and love of it you are a hobbyist. I do not believe that taking money for something makes you a professional. "engaged in a profession or engaging in as a profession or means of livelihood;" That is a more accurate definition than just saying, "Working for pay" because a guy who sells a comic book or two so he is able to buy another comic book or two does not consider himself a professional comic book collector unless that is how he pays his mortgage.

I also believe there is a professional "standard" in any skill or trade that may or may not be achieved by one who does it for their livelihood.

I have been all three Hobbyist, part timer, and full time pro.

Best,

Dan-

Over the years I have represented recording artists with hits in the top ten. They considered themselves hobbyists! They made their other millions from their other employment.

I suppose being president of the USA is just a hobby to most.

If you had been in the US military in the 60s, to have an adult income, you would still need outside employment. Most of the responsible ones did! Many of my friends made more as part time college instructors than they did as officers in the US military. Which one was really the part time job?

They were full time pros at what?

(Don't even ask about the medical types!)

This distinction is majoring in the minors. It really measures how little one can accomplish. Let's measure the positive!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- Ever noticed that a professional bull rider only works eight seconds at time? Who wants a full time bull riding job? (They do make more per year than most other entertainers for "show time"! And the dumb one is...?)

D. all of the above



Ok now what do I win?

Not really sure if we'll ever have a consensus on this.
Don't really see the need for one either.
Just do it, ya'know?

Gentleman, is it not possible for some with less then mediocre talent to squeak out minimal existence. I mean "live" off his magic and not be a professional?

Does professional not also refer to demeanor and perfessioncy?

Speak English for the love of all that's good and decent ttorres.

Gaddy, you are right. But if that advice were taken then this, and every other forum would be outta business yesterday.

BMav, helz no. The answer was B. Which means you get an F. Unless you drop out now, in which case you'd get an I for the quarter. However, with a little extra credit and a C-note and I could change it to an A. So help me G.

Bob S, what in the heck-fire are you talkin' about anywho? Bulls and Sailors of all things...

Danny, if the comic book collector wrote the comic book he was selling and illustrated it, then he'd have to be a part-timer. Unless it was for a trade, then he'd be a hobbiest again I think. Unless of course he traded for a more valuable object and sold that, in which case he's back up to part-timer again. Unless of course that one comic book reached iconic status and the guy can retire off the one sale...then he's pro.

Butt, if he sells a comic that someone else wrote, then yeah. He's a shmuck...err, I mean hobbiest.

Maybe live off magic but not live off busking...well unless sleeping on your friends couch is making it....the streets are hard ...i'm not talking those easy corporate pitches...I'M TALKING THE STREETS! the streets are hard and to make it out there...i'm talking making money...3 or 4 or 5 hundred a day you have to be good...if you want to be looked upon as a beggar...then making a little bit and sleeping on a friends couch is making it

I'd be happy making a living off of magic. Where is that blasted focus button on the camera Ted? That reminds me...need to watch that Joel Armstrong interview again...

What?

When I go on my tangents about pros and amatures I mean a pro is a guy who works in the magic and entertainment industry and an amatuer only works part time to not at all in the magic and entertainment industry.

for example; a guy doing resteruants and back yard shows for a living is a pro maybe not a busker, but a pro.

a guy who works at kinkos for a living and does magic on the week ends is an amatuer or semipro at best.

if a guy depends on the magic and entertainment money to pay all his bills, he's a pro.

and and the fact is most successful buskers do a lot more then sidewalks, a lot of buskers work festivals, busk indoors, do paid gigs, give lectures, make instructional dvds, write books, and sell their products.

if a guy making dvds or books about busking is making his living off of that and he can only make it out to the street on the weekend I would still consider him a busker because that's still whats paying his bills isn't it? his knowledge of busking.

besides if you ever meet a real busker you know once a busker always a busker.

fact is I just work the street for a living, but theres guys who don't any more who are a lot more of a real busker then me.

before I worked the street I worked back yard shows, resteruants,school functions, company parties any thing I could get paid for. I supported a family 2 kids and a stay at home mom and our cat.

and to try and answer ttorres question. I absolutely think you could be mediocre in magic and make a living at it, infact most of the guys makin all the money are terrible at magic.

they are great at business, but terrible at magic! and I would urge everyone, great or mediocre to join and help make our industry thrive.

PRO'S HAVE FAITH IN THE MAGIC INDUSTRY WHETHER THEY ARE TALENTED OR NOT.

with that said, please don't suck at magic if you can help it.

Jimmy, you are a truth-teller. I love reading your stuff.

Ok no more sucking at magic...


aw, who am I kidding?

I'm good at sucking at magic. would that make me a professional sucker? =/

Careful Josh,

That's illegal in Cincinnati. Ya have to go to Reno for that kinda work.


...so, when did you spend time in prison anyway?

Job: some thing you do for $$$ so you can go and do other things.
hobby: some thing you do for free, or pay to do.
professional: attitude or dedication to what you do.
Profession: some thing you get payed to do that you would otherwise do for free.

the job is booking gigs. Professional, is learning new tricks. The profession is the magic.

I yam what I yam...

You have no idea what you're talking about. I do this for the money. It's my profession. I love it. I will NEVER do it for free.

IM A BUSKER.

I busk therefore...I don't always get asian take-out.

One time while out and about busking, I had my daughter pass the hat, she tried to lift a five spot, bless her heart...I gave it to her.