The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Witness (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next]
jimbowmanjr
View Profile
Veteran user
Inside the Bottle
320 Posts

Profile of jimbowmanjr
As someone who has been critical and sometimes overly critical of Theory11 over the past month or so I have to say I am rather disgusted by some of the posts in this thread as they relate to Lee's routine.

First off this is Lee's original material and as such he is free to do with it whatever he likes, even release it on a DVD with new and updated information. If you don't like the notion of updating material from lecture notes and putting out a DVD to teach something you came up with 10 years ago then don't buy it.

Posting a video of a poor performance of a trick simply to show off how it was done was tasteless. What hype are you even talking about? This is the first post I have even seen on Witness outside of the T11 discussions and contest Lee had for the release. I would get into your REinCARDnation Kris but I think we have had enough of the magicians ****ting on other magicians for one day, don't you?

--Jim
Tim Jahn
View Profile
Special user
South Florida
911 Posts

Profile of Tim Jahn
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 01:58, jordanjohnson wrote:
Umm I don't know how you could combine the two???


It seems like a great idea for a whole little routine revolving around the card to bag theme. First you could do Witness and after the reveal of the card in the bag, Simply ask them to remove it and sign it as you offer to repeat the effect. (With the same baggie) Lay out the bag as they are signing the card and get it ready for Indecent. Then have them insert their signed card in the deck and continue as normal.

I'm sure that there are other ways. This just sprung to mind first.

Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
matt.magicman
View Profile
Inner circle
Mars
1515 Posts

Profile of matt.magicman
I think this a fanastc effect, and I am very pleased with the quality of the product, dvd etc...
I just wish they, and E would stop this: 1 trick, 1 dvd marketing
you can still get dvds that have 6-10 effects on , and the magician will still explain all those: extra subtlties, new patter, new ideas, unseen footage etc
I can only see it is being done for no other reason than for higher financial gain
that said, when an effect like witness is released who is missing out if you don't pick one up?
thanks for a top effect lee
THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
View Profile
Inner circle
Minnesota, USA
2379 Posts

Profile of THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 16:04, Timj32 wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 01:58, jordanjohnson wrote:
Umm I don't know how you could combine the two???


It seems like a great idea for a whole little routine revolving around the card to bag theme. First you could do Witness and after the reveal of the card in the bag, Simply ask them to remove it and sign it as you offer to repeat the effect. (With the same baggie) Lay out the bag as they are signing the card and get it ready for Indecent. Then have them insert their signed card in the deck and continue as normal.

I'm sure that there are other ways. This just sprung to mind first.

Tim


I was actually thinking along the lines of doing Witness with a signed card that way.
evolve629
View Profile
Inner circle
A stack of
3838 Posts

Profile of evolve629
I think Witness is a trick that is hard hitting and lay people are invariable dumfounded and surprise at the revelation in the end.

That being said, what's new about magicians decided to release material from his lecture notes into a DVD? Daniel Garcia has done it with Greed and many of his materials in Blueprints end up in Daniel Garica Project DVDs. That being said, I do wish Lee would release more from his lecture. But the price would of course go up to $35 or more. So I guess since we can't make all people happy all the time, let's enjoy Lee's Witness and it's a sweet thing to perform.
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler
djkuttdecks
View Profile
Special user
Nashville
660 Posts

Profile of djkuttdecks
I think the point is, at the end of the day its a mediocre card in baggy trick with a fancy new name from a site that claims "The underground magic epicenter" among other ridiculous things. The trick is fine and dandy... perfect for lecture notes and closing live sessions. But a single dvd that requires shipping and is 20 bucks? I'm just saying I expected more than a renamed pretty well known effect. I stopped using the forums ages ago but will peruse them every great once in a while. I've seen the same argument there as here. Its just a let down... not a bad trick, but products aren't living up to the hype that was used to promote them. There are however, VERY clever marketing schemes through out the entire site as well as product.
-DJ
Tim Jahn
View Profile
Special user
South Florida
911 Posts

Profile of Tim Jahn
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 16:56, djkuttdecks wrote:
I think the point is, at the end of the day its a mediocre card in baggy trick with a fancy new name from a site that claims "The underground magic epicenter" among other ridiculous things. The trick is fine and dandy... perfect for lecture notes and closing live sessions. But a single dvd that requires shipping and is 20 bucks? I'm just saying I expected more than a renamed pretty well known effect. I stopped using the forums ages ago but will peruse them every great once in a while. I've seen the same argument there as here. Its just a let down... not a bad trick, but products aren't living up to the hype that was used to promote them. There are however, VERY clever marketing schemes through out the entire site as well as product.
-DJ


So I take it that you have Lee's notes and already know the effect. Correct? And if so why would you buy the DVD and expect more? And how could you be let down if you already knew the effect?

Yes 20 bucks plus shipping. If shipping was a problem, Why not get the download? Problem solved!!

And what hype are you speaking of? This is the first thread on the café about this effect and I only saw a few on the Theory boards before the release. And most of those where about the contest. Hype is a 21 page thread that built up for a year concerning E's CIB's and multiple threads on E's own forums whilst all the while being touted as the best thing since magic was conceived. That's Hype my friend. Talk about very clever marketing.

As far as one effect on a DVD is concerned. I'm afraid its here to stay. Beyond that, You know you are getting only one effect BEFORE you but it. So if you don't like the idea....Why purchase it? It depends what you get out of it and what its worth to you. Lee took an old effect of his and put it on DVD (And he has every right to do so) and everyone knew this. It was not a secret. But now that you have it Its not worth it because theres only one "Rehashed" effect. Come on now. You knew that ahead of time. E's CIB's are one effect on a DVD and so far I haven't heard anyone complain about that and they cost even more. As I said, Its what you get out of it and what its worth to you.

If you don't like the effect...Say so and why. But to say that you don't like it Because of the way it was marketed AFTER you bought it seems problematic at best and borderline hypocritical at worst.

Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
djkuttdecks
View Profile
Special user
Nashville
660 Posts

Profile of djkuttdecks
No no no, don't get me wrong... I never bought the effect, I am smarter than that. I'm not really sure how E plays into anything I said either. I don't agree with the 1 trick dvd things they do always either. Although at least the CIB trailers show a full performance and with different people, are original (at least factory sealed) and evidently lived up to their hype since no one is really complaining about them. I didn't buy the CIB's either, just to lessen the confusion. But bullet may be something I'll look into soon. You seem to take great offense to anyone who dislikes this effect or the fact that its packaging and marketing is ethically questionable to some. Still, for a ground breaking underground magic epicenter, many would expect more. Your not one of them and that's ok, if you like it you like it... personally I would purchase with extreme caution and do my research. Why buy a dvd when the trailer doesn't even show the performance? Seems fishy when considered via common sense and not as a fan. Although I actually am a fan of Lee's magic.
-DJ
Tim Jahn
View Profile
Special user
South Florida
911 Posts

Profile of Tim Jahn
Sorry, E was just an example of Hype. I in no way meant anything bad by including them in the above post.

Yes, I like the effect and no, I do not take any offense as far as someone saying that they do not care for it. If you don't like it, Great!! I have no problem with that and I respect you opinion 100%. However you seemed to put more thought into the marketing and hype in most of your post than a disdain for the actual effect.

You mentioned "Questionable ethics". Exactly what are the ethics in question. This was Lees effect. He did not copy it from anyone else. Does he not have the right to do with it as he will and rename it if he wishes? The renaming was not a secret either as its right in the ad copy that he has done so. This is where I take offense as if he wishes to re-release it is his decision and in no way are ethics being violated. I also can't say that I think someone who buys a one effect DVD and then complains about it only having one effect is the brightest bulb in the room.

But as you say... You didn't buy the DVD and do not plan to. So how exactly do you know what its worth? How do you know that theres not something more than what was in the notes? I don't get that sort of thinking but at least you know that you don't want it at all and you have made an informed decision.

Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Well, I think it's Lee's trick and it doesn't matter that it was on a set of lecture notes. He put it out on DVD ( I love seeing tricks from lecture notes done on DVD as I elarn better and LOVE seeing how the Pro does it ). I'm shocked people put out 10 trick DVD's.

Whether or not it's a jaw dropping effect is another matter. Magic in their hands is the strongest and this is done in their hands.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
View Profile
Inner circle
Minnesota, USA
2379 Posts

Profile of THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
Like I said, this is a DVD teaching showmanship, using Witness as an example.
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Sankey came out with Paperclipped ( then called #%$%& or similar ) the charcaters were a curse word because that wss thr reactions. It was wonderful to it on video/DVD.

Good for Lee!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
krisnevling
View Profile
Regular user
clearfield, pa
137 Posts

Profile of krisnevling
First off let's get your facts straight. The only ones complaining about the reincardnation are the same ones who praised it as if it were the holy grail a few years back. I don't know if you remember but INIDYLS was the one saying all these crazy and untrue things about ownership of the video yet this is a post from him before it was a MagicMakers DVD:
"I was one of the lucky ones to get his demo release.
After all the fuss with sinful (coin in can)the best impromtu trick, this blows it away. Why? because your not wasting someones soda can. And you can perform this with a business card or what have ya.
I was at a convention Kris Nevling was at and let me say after he performed reincardnation I didn't care how much he was selling it for , I just wanted to learn it. It took a day to perfect it.
Here's what happens :you get a card signed (doesn't matters who's card it is)and you rip it in four pieces, you can let them rip it too. Then you put it back piece by piece after they inspect each restoration.
There is no gimmick, extra piece, or switches.
that's right totally impromtu"
Here's another: This one is from Christopher Williams,
"It must be said that Impromptu magic is the best, and todays creators are just getting better and better at over coming the need for gaffs etc. Probably the strongest effect to come out in years, Wayne Houchins Coin in Soda can. The perfect anytime, anywhere effect that slays spectators, and, its IMPROMPTU. 1 of the best Torn and Restored effects to be brought out is Kris Nevlings reinCARDnation. Highly Visual, uses only 1 card, and best of all, its IMPROMPTU.
And, one of the best coin matrix effects is Dan Garicas sh4de. 4 coins, no gaffs or [s what so ever, and, its IMPROMPTU

3 awesome effects that I use, and best of all, they are all impromptu, you've just got to love magic, I so happy this art has captured my heart for so long"

One more just for you Timj32 once again from mr Inidyls:
"I can't wait to see the people reactions when Kris Nevling performs his (most talked about)torn & restored card trick Reincardnation. I hope he has videoe's for sale.
This is truely the BEST convention of the year on the east coast, where else do you get close-up, stage and all you can eat in one day! plus an auction, flea market, lecture, dealer show.

FOR ONLY $30.00"
Now all of the sudden they say the trick is no good and all that happy horse sh_t. One of the things I see wrong about magic today is the lack of honesty when it comes to mediocre routines. It's like nobody wants to hurt anyones feelings, and that's why there is a ton of crap out there.
As far as the youtube link please tell me what made the performance so bad. Name one thing the performer did that wasn't exactly how it's supposed to be done. You can't because he actually did an O.K. job with the routine. The reason you're saying it's a bad performance is because the method is pretty obvious when you see the whole routine.(Maybe that's why there is no full performance in the demo.)
Don't get me wrong, Lee has some great ideas and even this is pretty cool, but is it worth 20 bucks? Not to me, and now I'm the bad guy because I expressed my opinion. That's why these forums are all screwed up too, because as soon as someone says a trick isn't great then you get the little forum mob(you know who you are) come on and rip on the person who was only posting an honest opinion.
As far as putting up your own video of ReinCARDnation. Please do. I love the publicity. And I'm sure your mediocre card skills will be like most on youtube and give away some of the method but that's cool, I'd love to see any performances from you. Odds are they aren't that good. Did I just call you out? Maybe! I PMed you my number and address. Maybe we can talk face to face, but then again I know you're used to hiding behind those fake screen names and saying anything you want without fear of retaliation. It really shows your maturity level. I go to conventions. Maybe we could attend the same one and discuss your hatred toward my routine. Let me know. You have my number.
I am 27 years old and have been performing magic for 12 years. My main interest is in card magic, but I love all aspects of it. I love to discuss magic with anyone. Feel free to email me anytime.
Tim Jahn
View Profile
Special user
South Florida
911 Posts

Profile of Tim Jahn
I'll just let your post speak for itself here.
Sounds good. Whatever you think superchops.

Tim
P.S. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. It only looks bad because you see the whole performance? No your right. You should only do it part way through. Wow.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Tim Jahn
View Profile
Special user
South Florida
911 Posts

Profile of Tim Jahn
By the way Kris, Your the bad guy here because you posted a link to a video when you KNEW that it would expose the method. You showed poor taste and judgment in doing so and you continue to show poor judgment.


This is a thread about witness. That you tried your best to sabotage.
If you wish to continue your sally sob story. Please do so, On a thread with that subject title.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Steve Pellegrino
View Profile
Loyal user
224 Posts

Profile of Steve Pellegrino
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 01:32, djkuttdecks wrote:
Personally, I was offended that they are pushing a repackaged trick from well known lecture notes. Also, on their own forum someone made a good observation saying that the trick isn't even shown in the trailer because the performance is so obvious (i don't know if that is true but no one argued that post who got it).

:::::::::::::::::::::

Witness seems like a lame and poor attempt at reselling a mediocre trick to teens that will buy anything cause of a name and hype.


I'm having a hard time understanding the obvious hatred for this effect from people who didn't buy what's being offered on T11. If you have it in the lecture notes I can understand that you probably wouldn't purchase the video, but to say you were personally offended this was being released? Jeez!If you don't like it, ignore it and move on with your life.

Now what I am personally offended by is your statement that implies only teens would buy this because of a name & hype. I'm in my 40's and I bought this.It's a strong effect.$20 for one effect? For an effect that I will use professionally, $20 is a bargain for a time-tested, commercial routine.

Regarding the trailer issue - in today's market we're selling magic to a very jaded customer base who insist on a demo video that they can watch, analyze and reverse engineer. The purpose is to show you the effect as the audience will see it. It's possible to do this with some effects(the recent Bill Malone DVD demos are like that). With other effects, that's just not possible.
toomuchmagic
View Profile
Special user
534 Posts

Profile of toomuchmagic
Quote:
On 2007-11-02 17:42, Timj32 wrote:
Hype is a 21 page thread that built up for a year


You obviously missed the 100+ page thread that built up in about a months time.
Tim Jahn
View Profile
Special user
South Florida
911 Posts

Profile of Tim Jahn
The only one that I knew of here was this one:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=218&743

It got up to 25 pages so I stand corrected on the 21 page point but that's the only one I saw.
Was it on the café?

Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
toomuchmagic
View Profile
Special user
534 Posts

Profile of toomuchmagic
Quote:
On 2007-11-03 01:15, Timj32 wrote:
The only one that I knew of here was this one:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=218&743

It got up to 25 pages so I stand corrected on the 21 page point but that's the only one I saw.
Was it on the café?

Tim


you asked where is the hype...that there was no hype regarding theory11 and its offerings, and you claim a 25 page per year thread is hyped.

I think that a thread that builds up 135 pages in less than 45 days goes beyond hype.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218
krisnevling
View Profile
Regular user
clearfield, pa
137 Posts

Profile of krisnevling
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what was bad about the performance of witness by the youtuber. I have a feeling nobody will say because the performance isn't bad. What else could he have done to make it better. Please explain.
Also no one claimed to be superchops but without tooting my own horn I am pretty handy with a deck of cards. Am I conceited now. No, it's just what I've been told by people who would know.(before anyone asks Bob Elliot, John Blake, Paul Hallas, to name a few.) I know what I can do and I read a lot(I hate DVD's) This trick is O.K. That's it.
I am 27 years old and have been performing magic for 12 years. My main interest is in card magic, but I love all aspects of it. I love to discuss magic with anyone. Feel free to email me anytime.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Witness (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL