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Tim Jahn
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One more time for the slower people. It was not about the performance in the video. It was about the fact the YOU posted a link to a video with every intention of exposing the method.

And once again we come around to your favorite subject. YOU. If you want to toot your own horn (Man doesn't that hurt your back?) please do it on the Kris Nevling thread. This is the witness thread.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
Tim Jahn
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Quote:
On 2007-11-03 02:55, toomuchmagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-03 01:15, Timj32 wrote:
The only one that I knew of here was this one:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......=218&743

It got up to 25 pages so I stand corrected on the 21 page point but that's the only one I saw.
Was it on the café?

Tim


you asked where is the hype...that there was no hype regarding theory11 and its offerings, and you claim a 25 page per year thread is hyped.

I think that a thread that builds up 135 pages in less than 45 days goes beyond hype.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218


Oh..The original Theory 11 thread. Yep! Got to agree with you that that was defiantly HYPE. I thought that you were talking about witness though as I saw no thread for it and I knew the CIB thread didn't get up that high.

In all fairness though I was comparing a product with a product. The Theory 11 thread grew to 142 pages because of people trying to figure out what the heck it was and following all the little clues. It was a glorified easter egg hunt and in the end it was a shop found in the golden egg. Hype? Yes. Clever marketing? Yes.

But I saw no Hype for Witness And that was my point.

Tim
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
krisnevling
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clearfield, pa
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Tim I must stay you surely avoid the question. I'm asking what the performer did wrong that exposed the method? If you have no answer then obviously the routine is too transparent. If I'm wrong let me know.
I am 27 years old and have been performing magic for 12 years. My main interest is in card magic, but I love all aspects of it. I love to discuss magic with anyone. Feel free to email me anytime.
toomuchmagic
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You don't think that the hype for theory11 included witness. I do for sure.

I think that is why some people are a bit disappointed. The hype revolved around a REVOLUTION in magic...underground stuff that will change how we look at magic in general.

Instead this is what we got.

1. a trick that a lot of us already have (Witness),
2. a trick by someone else that some of us already have, and those who have it cant cite a difference in method or handling (Digital dissolve),
3. a refreshed and slightly altered gimmick to a trick a lot of us already have (Distortion)
4. Some more inherently useless card juggling
5. another black deck of playing cards which defeats the purpose of using playing cards (a regular everyday object) in the first place.
6. and a crap load of hype and no results.

They say that most things never live up to the hype. But in this case it failed miserably.

Don't get me wrong. These tricks are all good. But at the end of the day, they are just tricks, and they are NOT new and/or revolutionary.
jordanjohnson
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Good point I agree completely. Also as for Panic which you left out. I remember seeing an idea with the gimmick in one of Jay Sankeys lectue notes or something.

So ya just hype to sell tricks like every other site out there.
toomuchmagic
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I left out panic intentionally.....because I have no proof of this...

But I remember being young and making a gimmick very similar to this....granted it was used for a completely different purpose, but whatever. When I say young, I am talking I was reading magic books made for kids.
jordanjohnson
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Ya when I saw Panic I immediatley knew how it was done because I read about Jay Sankey using that method, and ya it is very, very simple gimmick, anywyas anyone perform Witness and can testify to how hard hitting it is?
Tim Jahn
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Quote:
On 2007-11-03 13:36, krisnevling wrote:
Tim I must stay you surely avoid the question. I'm asking what the performer did wrong that exposed the method? If you have no answer then obviously the routine is too transparent. If I'm wrong let me know.


Do you actually read posts before you answer with rhetoric.
I said that there was nothing wrong with the performance. The performance was fine.
It was the fact that YOU posted it here to expose the method. "The method is pretty obvious". Is that not what you said in your original post?
It seems your the one skirting the issue here.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
The Mac
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Keep this up guys. I expected the ellusionist CIB thread to be full on ..but this is the one for drama. Smile
djkuttdecks
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Weeeee, but seriously. If Lee had released a dvd that was a lengthy look into performance and practices when communicating with an audience then that would be amazing. Instead its an ok trick that is fine in lecture note form. The youtube performance was actually fine... sadly that's as good as it gets. However, to release the dvd and then explain away its blah content by saying its a lesson in simplicity just kinda seems... well hack. We all got opinions tho. if you like it then you can consider it money well spent... I however would suggest to anyone looking into it to look deeper and proceed with extreme caution... in the end its weak, a basic ACR or even indecent will get you better reactions.
-DJ
kenodad
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No, witness is not fantastic or earth shattering, but it is good; and I think it is a VERY good beginner trick-powerful with minimal (no real) sleights. Of course you magic boys will figure it out from an entire performance. I think most well-educated magicians can figure out how simple tricks work by watching a full performance.I think most of the critics here forget what magic is to a layperson. To us, a simple spongeball routine is transparent, but it DOES play well for laypeople (and if you do not agree, you are NOT performing for laypeople, or you need to practice more). The card does not have to be signed to be good, from a layperson's perspective-if you think about it, the card they select is unique already (assuming the deck is normal, which laypeople generally do assume), why sign it? Even with Witness, it is not that difficult to come up with a method by watching the demo--One would purchase the effect for tips on handling, perfomance tips, etc. It may be "just another ACR" to US, but to a layperson a joker changing into a selected card is different from a card returning to the top. The bag adds texture and dimension to the effect. So what if it is one effect for $20? So many dvd's have 10 crappy effects that never get perfected because the sleights are too advanced, it is impractical, etc.. I think it would be better for beginner (and many intermediate) magicians to focus on one effect and do it well versus doing a bunch of effects poorly. And finally, I also think that it is in poor taste to post a link JUST with the intention of exposing the method and starting a thread just to be critical. But, of course, the person that did it does not think that way, and all attempts to convince him otherwise will fail.
djkuttdecks
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Kenodad, You made the first and only post supporting this trick that I thought was well thought out un-biased and not rude. Thank you, you have semi swayed me on the sales of this product. Thank you for your reply. I'm slighted to agree with you.

And you didn't rant or belittle anyone either... amazing that can be done SmileGreat post.
-DJ
Review King
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Eternal Order
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OK, I watched Lee's trailer and the youtube clip. It wouldn't be an effect for me, but for some it may work quite well. I just prefer to do signed card effects.

Lee Asher started a post to launch Theory 11 as being a new site with a group of Magicians releasing cutting edge magic. Witness would not fit that category. Good for Lee to release it, but maybe from his own site and not Theory 11.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
djkuttdecks
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Quote:
On 2007-11-05 00:08, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
OK, I watched Lee's trailer and the youtube clip. It wouldn't be an effect for me, but for some it may work quite well. I just prefer to do signed card effects.

Lee Asher started a post to launch Theory 11 as being a new site with a group of Magicians releasing cutting edge magic. Witness would not fit that category. Good for Lee to release it, but maybe from his own site and not Theory 11.


that's all I have been saying Smile Theory 11 was just a let down, not a single "cutting edge" product. Witness was just pre-packaged store bought wal-mart brand icing on the already bland cake.
-DJ
Review King
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Quote:
On 2007-11-05 00:40, djkuttdecks wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-05 00:08, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:
OK, I watched Lee's trailer and the youtube clip. It wouldn't be an effect for me, but for some it may work quite well. I just prefer to do signed card effects.

Lee Asher started a post to launch Theory 11 as being a new site with a group of Magicians releasing cutting edge magic. Witness would not fit that category. Good for Lee to release it, but maybe from his own site and not Theory 11.


that's all I have been saying Smile Theory 11 was just a let down, not a single "cutting edge" product. Witness was just pre-packaged store bought wal-mart brand icing on the already bland cake.
-DJ


Well...they did have one cutting edge product. Unfortunately for them it belonged to Steve Dusheck and they did the right thing and pulled it.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
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What would that effect be?
KMan1564
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The copper/silver transpo.
New Mentalism and eMagic Supply Exclusives
http://emagicsupply.com/126.html
THEGUY26 (Will Swanson)
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Digital Dissolve?
KMan1564
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I believe that was the name of it.
New Mentalism and eMagic Supply Exclusives
http://emagicsupply.com/126.html
TheAmazingSteveo
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I just downloaded Witness .. it is FREAKIN GREAT !!!!!
Lee Asher is a genius.
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