Tim:

THANKS!!! I have not had the time to read much of this, but it looks like exactly what will help anyone interested purchase responsibly. I appreciate the lead...

Finally found an appropriate place to post this. This is my two cents on Magic Makers. ( If you could please excuse my grammar)

Now I understand that Magic Makers has ripped off a lot of people in magic as well as creators. I just hope that you guys know they are not the only ones. I am 100% sure all of you have at least a product Empire in their collection. They are just as guilty as Magic Makers. They have ripped off effects and marketed them. Yet I do not hear you anyone complain about them. It seems to me very few people actually understand about Magic Makers. People are just saying what other people say.

The reason people pick on Magic Makers is because... (order doesn't mater)
-easy target
-Magic makers actually shows a face behind its name.
-ignorant people
-People who shop at online shops


What people don't understand is this. Magic has very little markup so dealers have two options. (Does not include Online dealers)

a. Make their items somewhat expensive and earn a living.
b. not make any profit, close down the store, tell the family they are broke.

Magic Makers has allowed dealers to have a decent markup on their magic and to make their store succeed. Here is a list of other companies who also allow this.

-Royal magic
-Ez- Magic
-Empire Magic

Now how come these above guys don't get bashed?? They do the exact same thing magic makers does.

-They ripp off effect
-They make them very cheap quality

Perhaps it is because they only ripp off old effects? and Magic Makers steal new effects.
Magic Makers has allowed stored to start up their business and stay opened. They allow young people who don't have large budgets to get started in magic.

I believe they are huge help to dealers. Somewhat. by that I means it should help them but like many people on the Café who boycott dealers who carry these items totally negates the whole thing. What this boycotting accomplishes is.

-magic gets more expensive
-magic shops go out of business

Now I understand how people feel especially creators. So if you don't want to support magic makers fine don't by the brand. Purchase the product from the original creator and lets all be happy. Boycotting Magic shops accomplishes only negative things. It is not the Magic shops who supports magic Makers it is the consumer. There will always be people who will go for the cheaper brand then the more expensive one. We see this all over the place. (every type of store) I am sure some of you have chosen to purchase the cheaper brand of potato chips at one point.

I find that 99% of the working professional knows what to purchase and whom the support should go to.

I would like to hear some responses so we can discuss further.

in the meantime a small list of Companies who ar ejust as guilty as magic makers.

-Ellusionist
-Penguin Magic
-Andy Comic
-E-Z Magic
-Empire Magic
-Royal Magic
-Precision magic
-Roy Kueppers

I agree with Qbert. I understand that some stores offer more than one variation of a trick. It's about providing a solution to the customer. The customer for magic stores (especially B&M shops) are mostly new magicians. They are what keep the shop alive. So they are ethically right in providing said service to that community.

Now that being said. I try not to purchase ripped off effects. I haven't always been successful because of lack of knowledge.

As it has been said before, we buy ripoffs all the time. Not just in magic. Anybody every bought stuff at a Dollar store?

The thief that breaks into houses and then sells the stolen goods at a discount is also helping HIS dealers. He is also helping people who can't afford a nice Plasma TV like the thiefs victim used to own. He's helping so many people we should give him a break. Lets quit whining when a thief steals our TV or our neighbors TV.. c'mon he's helping so many other people! (to our stuff)LOL

Lets not pick on him ....because there are other thieves out there as well. We should ignore this thief as long as OTHERS are stealing as well.

Best,

Tim

At last someone with my paralel of sarcasm, thank you Magic Café and thank you Tim.

It seems to me that you are ignoring the other ones and over obsessing over just one.

Forgive me Dj Qbert but MagicMakers IS the topic of the thread isn't it? I don't think its obsessing to stay on topic. I am all for exposing those who knockoff of others effects and sell them for profit. If you'd like to list effects stolen or report on which effects have been knocked off by those other than MagicMakers feel free to do so in this thread or a new one. To defend MagicMakers by saying... " others do it also" is not a very strong argument. They sell others effects plain and simple.

Best,

Tim

Although I agree with both sides (can I do that?), there is the legal side to it. Copyright does not cost that much. In fact is costs very little if you know how (under $200.00). So why aren't people protecting their material?

I am not saying it's right, far from it, but don't you think somebody that leaves their car unlocked with the keys inside is asking to be taken advantage of? Of course the law allows for prosecution because there is proof of ownership of the car.

Since when does copyright protect tricks?

Hello Bill,

From what I've seen MagicMakers gives each product a different name anyway so that pretty much takes care of any protection that copyright would protect. I'm no legal expert. I'm had my share of run arguements with C. Loubard here in the Café regards ethics vs law but I get the idea he is more versed on the legal side of these matters. Maybe he'd care to comment (if we asked very nicely..LOL) on what protection Copyright actually gives you.. and for that matter what is involved in establishing it.

Best,

Tim

But if they do it, then they have a start instead of whining that it costs too much to do so, or it doesn't' work...yada yada...

Tim, I'm no copyright expert either but an ounce of prevention goes a lot further than none.

On a Copyright, changing a name doesn't protect anything. If it is a copy, you're in violation.

Can you provide proof of this statement (I do believe you, I just think we need somewhere we can refer to on a regular basis).

Posted: Jan 6, 2008 9:39pm
As an add-on...
We have done this in the FX section in regards to legalities in using music in acts...we should do the same here

Kindly look up the law about what copyright protects - and the earlier discussions here at the Magic Café including some cogent discussion by Bill Palmer about these issues.

Then if you have some suggestions we can move forward

And why don't you be useful and provide us with this info since you seem to already have it? You kill me J! LOL

Alright I agree that Magic Makers has copied several effects and has gotten carried away lately. I am defending them a bit by comparing them to other similar companies but the reason I am doing this is to open peoples eyes.

My main concern about this topic is to keep Magic Shops (B&M) opened and in business. The thing that ticks me off is when I hear someone say we will not shop at that store because they carry Magic Makers Products. Like I mentioned in my original post This accomplishes nothing good. Of course Magic Makers will loose business but the Magic Shops will suffer more. Just because of something silly. So all I'm trying to say is keep the magic shops out of the line of fire. I don't really care if people choose not to buy their products.

The smart buyer knows what he is purchasing.

Hello Dj_Qbert,

I am one of those guys who boycott magic shops that sell MagicMakers products. If I go into an electronics store and they have a " stolen items" section ( which includes my neighbors stolen Plasma TV ) I am going to decided NOT to shop there and I don't see why a magic shop should be any different. If the magic shop owner willingly carries the MagicMakers stuff then they should expect that some will choose not to shop there. Don't worry about them getting hurt much and going out of business. Like all stolen merchandise there is lots more profit than legit stuff so they aren't doing so bad. They'll survive. I don't by from the fence down the street and he's still in business.

Not every buyer is educated. If you call a shop and order a legit product you may very well get a MagicMakers clone and not know the difference especially if you are new to magic. Actually... read a few posts up and you'll see someone mentioning they were unaware of this until Tim Ellis posted about it.

Best,

Tim

Sorry some of the magic shops are buying goods from known suppliers of awkward products.

They don't have to sell such goods or even buy from those suppliers.

Let your local B&M magic shop know where you stand on this and vote with your wallet.

Remember - all the really good stuff new can be bought from the inventors and the classics are in print so you have lots of choices to make.

Or even if you are fairly educated, you can still find yourself with a product that is a rip off. Right Tim? LOL

The magic shops put themselves in the line of fire when they start stocking the MM product, we don't put them there.

Most magic shops that carry fake vomit and pet feces don't even use the original they go after the aftermarket crap and vomit too, bottom line is the dealers decide what they carry. "I gotta make a living so I'm forced to supply the public with ripped verions and routines." That's like "your honour, I couldn't cut it selling magic so I had to sell drugs to survive."