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Experimentalist Veteran user 356 Posts |
Ptbeast
Do you get the expectations clear after they have arrived for the show, or beforehand? The reason I ask is because I have found that many people have the expectations firmly in their mind when they walk in the door. Their subsequent opinion of the show seems to then be determined by how close it came to those expectations. The people who have enjoyed it the most seem to have been those rare people who just allow it to be what it is without imposing an idea of what it should be. Naturally however, I believe that the entire audience should be entertained, not just the 2% who come without preconceived notions. That's why I feel that the original marketing piece as well as any direct contact with customers should communicate the type of seance that is planned. **************** Todd I think this little block of text you provided could resolve most of my problems with expectations. "What you will experience here tonight is not like what you have seen in movies or on TV. What you will hear, you will hear with you inner ear. What you will see, you will see with your mind's eye. For each and everyone of you, it will be different. What you encounter tonight is really up to you. Open your souls to this experience, for it is there that the spirit will reach out to you and embrace you." Thanks! |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
You are welcome. The Café is supposed to be "magicians helping magicians."
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
I agree with Mr. Phineas Taylor Beast. Though there is no way to make certain how the public perceives what you are selling, it is important to make it as clear as possible.
One of the promotional pieces made up for the Charlatan's Seance looked like an old style playbill and had the following text: Fraud! Todd Robbins Creator of the off-Broadway sensation Carnival Knowledge and renown expert on all things deceitful presents: The Charlatan’s Séance A thrilling exposé of Spiritualistic chicanery The Innermost thoughts of audience members REVEALED, Spirit messages materialize, Evil demons exorcised, The heartbeat is stopped and started at will, A Tambourine and bell float through the air, Ghostly apparitions appear and vanish into the ether, All this and much more. In short, Mr. Robbins creates the chilling illusion that THE DEAD have Returned AND WALK AMONG THE LIVING! This performance in NOT suitable for small children, patrons with a weak CONSTITUTION or ladies in the family way! ____________________________ And this was the press release for the first run of the show in the NY International Fringe Festival. The show as then called Dark Deceptions: Todd Robbins, creator of the off-Broadway hit Carnival Knowledge, returns to the NY International Fringe Festival with the world premiere of his new show, Dark Deceptions: The Séance Experience. Todd sums up the show this way, “For the last one hundred and fifty years, the Spiritualist movement has claimed to make contact with the dead. From that first day to this, it has been a movement filled with both fraud and delusion. This show will be no different.” Todd employs trickery to produce manifestations right before the eyes of the audience, and covert trance induction to conjure up phenomenon within their minds. Todd creates the illusion that the dead have return to walk among the living. In this seventy-five minute performance, Todd presents what sitters at a 19th century séance would have experienced. A chill will run up and down the spine as the innermost thoughts of audience members are revealed, the pulse of an audience member is stopped and started at will, a spirit message appears on writing slates, a tambourine rattle and a bell ring as they float through the air, a malevolent poltergeist is exorcised and ghostly apparitions materialize and vanish. All this and more will be presented in this one-man show. In creating this show, Todd draws upon his wealth of knowledge in the realm of all things deceptive. He has used his expertise, gained by walking down the shady streets of fraud, on numerous TV programs and has consulted on various articles, documentaries and films. His entertaining discourse on scams and flimflam, The Pros of Con, has been well received in the corporate and college market. The talk has also been endorsed by the various groups of police officers and bunco investigators, including the Professionals Against Confidence Crime. On the entertaining side of deceit, he has spent more than twenty-five years performing magic in every venue imaginable from the stage of the sideshow in Coney Island to the stage of Carnegie Hall. He is a producer of New York’s longest running magic show, Monday Night Magic, now entering its ninth year. For more information about Dark Deceptions, please go to the web site at http://www.darkdeceptions.net. |
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christiancagigal Special user SF Bay Area 625 Posts |
It's true no matter how much you say Fake, Trick or Fraud many people will probably attach themselves to the very visceral feeling of experiencing a ghost and then believe that feeling. And why not? Whether you do a seance of the mind or a 'crash boom bang' type of show, everybody is walking in with a lot of images and ideas (as was said before). These ideas are already carrying them emotionally to your show. That emotion is much stronger than the word Fraud. Well at least it is a much sexier idea than Fraud because Fraud means that you've been tricked and who really wants think the getting tricked is a fun entertainment....but magic or mind reading or manifesting ghosts or even just somebody with 'really fast hands' is a much more fun idea to be entertained by than the idea of a Fraud.
That's not a knock on anybody just my own thoughts on why people still come out 'believing' no matter what you are telling them. Of course this could become another discussion all together and we've all hashed that one out already a lot so I'll keep on topic.... Another approach to circumventing people's expectations is by never really telling them what they're in for. I know you've kept it vague but maybe you just tell people that it's a creepy magic show or a creepy mindreading show. Then as the show progresses the audience begins to realize what's going on and what they are in for: GHOSTS! But, now it's on your terms. They came to see a magic or mindreading show and then it turned into a seance. Of course that doesn't cure the problem entirely but it can help a whole lot. That's if you can find the right balance in your approach. Since I don't how your show goes I don't really know if these ideas I'm giving would really work. At least that has been my approach with my theater show. Then the show really becomes about their own experience and how they felt about what happens in the show. Good Luck C
"Besides the known and the unknown, what else is there?"-Harold Pinter
www.christiancagigal.com |
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DrNorth Veteran user North Starr Entertainment, Harrisburg PA 364 Posts |
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On 2007-11-07 13:18, SpellbinderEntertainment wrote: I agree whole heartedly with Walt. I would guess that this trend to read thoughts pops up from the type of "contact with the John Edwards" presentation most people have seen over the past few decades. As magicians we, and possibly most guests want manifestations more than whose ring is whose in a psychometry display. As an entertainer I feel better about leaving Q&A out, esp if they want to know how grandma is doing or why did little Debbie pass away so young. "For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be. But which it that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell" ~Galadriel "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes." |
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
I could not agree more with the notion that setting audience expectations is crucial. It's no fun disappointing an audience because you gave one show and they were expecting something else.
This year marks my seventh year as Medium of The Houdini Seance on behalf of Assembly No. 3 of the Society of American Magicians. What I've learned over the years is to set expectations before a single person walks through the door by communicating through all newspaper blurbs, articles, and interviews about the event that my seance is NOT a big scary Halloween spook show with rubber masks and fake blood. While many may find it quietly creepy and even unnerving at times, it is a thoughtful reenactment of an authentic Victorian spirit circle in honor of Harry Houdini, who passed from this earth 81 years ago. While I cannot promise exactly what each sitter will experience, everybody has my assurances that everything will proceed precisely as it would have if they been seated at a traditional seance during Houdini's lifetime. When guests arrive, this same information is in programs placed on every person's seat. And when the seance itself is happening, it stays absolutely true to the premise -- and remains an absolutely smashing success. I hope this helps you. Best, Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
The challenge is to live up to expectation AND fill up enough time to make it a full show. The darkroom section of a show is what the seance is all about for many people, but more of ten minutes of it is pushing it. There are a number of 'tests' that can be done in candle light leading up to it, but it is hard to get something like Living and Dead to play to a large crowd.
Sitting around a table is one thing, but when you are playing to a couple of hundred people, it is a real challenge. I put Q & A into the show because I wanted to invade the Edward/Van Praagh territory. It is amazing how powerful using someone's sorrow against them can be. People knew they were only watching a show and yet they still teared up. One of the problems with Q & A is that it can be boring for those not receiving a message. I worked on this and tried many things, but the results were not as good as I wanted it to be. The irony is that many of the techniques I came up with were inspired by wanting to overcome the lousy theatrics I have found in Spiritualist church message services. If I wanted to get up in front of one of those groups, I now know how to make it work. What I was doing would be very effective. But in a show like mine, where I am not asking for belief, it is a different matter. |
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ptbeast Special user Oregon 831 Posts |
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On 2007-11-08 16:52, Experimentalist wrote: I try to do both, and as clearly as possible. A few years ago we did a show in which people had no idea of what to expect. It seemed that it was half way through before many members of the audience would 'get it.' Clear messages in both contexts are important. You certainly want to be clear about what you are asking people to lay their money out for. Their preconceptions will be firmly in place when they buy a ticket. After your guests arrive, however, you need to set the mood for the evening. This, of course, is generally easier, as it can be done in person. Todd -- I would love to attend one of your seances. The largest audience that I have performed seance style entertainment for was about 40, and I found that cumbersome. Keeping the intimate feeling of a seance for several hundred people must be a very challenging endeavor. I would really like to see how you handle it, as I have heard great things about your show. |
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DrNorth Veteran user North Starr Entertainment, Harrisburg PA 364 Posts |
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On 2007-11-07 14:57, beyrevra wrote: This is, of course just MY opinion, but I couldn't disagree more. As a "true" medium they might just do a lights on, low to no props Q&A type of seance wherein he'd contact a passed person to answer or assist a grieving survivor ( I'd say, good or bad, real or fake, this is what we see with John Edwards, BUT as a performer/magician I'd stick with the dusty Ouija board and tea stained letters. Because that is what will entertain an audience. Even in 2007, the Victorian style seance is what they expect. Why? atmosphere. A magicians seance is about story telling. IMHO Lee Earle's manifestations, is classic and still very viable in this area. That type of "Halloween" seance is for entertainment, not a way to check on dear passed Grandma (of which I feel no magician should be doing as that type (see John Edwards, is a con, a scam and just as reprehensible as a psychic surgeon). Preying on people's grief and loss is parastic. A positive, non-financial blackmail/hostage style of Gypsy fortune telling/seance is just wrong. In Lee earle's he doesn't try to contact a audiance members passed relation, he makes up theater. Again before anyone flames this is my opinion. "For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be. But which it that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell" ~Galadriel "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes." |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
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On 2007-11-11 01:26, ptbeast wrote: The concept of my show was to embrace the Spiritualist church service idea. A lecture/demonstration of Spiritualistic principles. It was something that many of the well known 19th Century mediums, such as Margret & Kate Fox and Anna Eva Fay, did in town halls. It served the purpose of being able to play to a large crowd, but it is not as compelling as a small group-table seance. Part of the problem is that to use the same kind material that the old spiritualists used, you need to have a room full of believers. They will overlook any shortcomings in the material. And if you open it up the public, you better be working for a small group so that you can manage their attention so that they don't notice the creakiness of this stuff. I tried to take the stink off of it by asking the audience to play along with me. As I used to say in the prologue, "The material you will see me do is deception at its flimsiest. If you try to outsmart it, reach out in the dark, it all falls about. If you shine the bright light of doubt upon it, it is very apparent what it is." I would then go on to engage the audience by saying, "But a seance can be a powerful experience if you look upon it as real. So, that is what I need you all to do. Dismiss your skepticism, suspend your disbelief and, just for the duration of this show, believe." In essence, I was doing the prologue from Shakespeare's Henry V. After the prologue I would then work hard to fool them as completely as possible, so they wouldn't have to overlook any shortcomings. The challenge was to still stay true to kind of things the old spiritualist used to do. It is hard to paint from that limited palate of colors and still do job of amazing and entertaining a skeptical audience. Though the results were adequate, I don't think the show was all it could and should be. I don't know if I will be coming back to this project or not. A theatrical seance is the hardest thing I have ever done. |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Todd!
You've given in your posts here expert knowledge, and powerful professional opinions. Your posts have been jewels of thought and experience. Thanks so much, I hope anyone getting into this "game" reads and re-reads your thoughts and advice. Magically, Walt |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Thanks Walt. I have spent some time working on this subject and I find sharing this information also helps me to see this experience in a new light.
As I stated, I feel I got close to making the show what it should be, but it wasn't all there. The problem is that I am not sure if some tweaking is needed to close that gap, or if I need to completely rethink the whole thing. Teller and I have been talking about this and some of his ideas are great and really wild. It would take it in a completely new direction. I'm not sure I could pull it off, but it would a fun thing to pursue. The problem is that I don't have the luxury to spend more time on spec with the seance show. Perhaps later. One thing I did get out of this project is the knowledge of how to make people scream in the dark. So, I might take that, combine it with what I learned working the Fright Fests at Six Flags, add in my research on the history of the subject and do the spook show to end all spook shows. I have notebook full of ideas on this subject. When I started thinking about doing a new project, I was torn between doing a seance show and a spook show. I chose seance because there was a message I wanted to convey with it. Now, perhaps it is time to try a spook show. Professor Zombini's Spooktacular: Ghosts, Ghouls and Wild,Wild Women! Stay Tuned. |
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
Well I just finished my first attempt at holding a theatrical seance for the month of October. Most people really enjoyed my seance while I had some that were disappointed. Halfway through the run, I made it more clear as to what to expect by listing the running time as well as adding the word "Theatrical" in front of Re-Creation of a Turn of the Century Seance.
During my introduction, I also stated that for those who came to see a Hollywood representation of a seance, that they should attend Disneyland. Bottom line is to educate your audience on what you are doing so there are no misunderstandings. Jamie http://www.houstonseance.com
Jamie Salinas
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Experimentalist Veteran user 356 Posts |
Jamiesalinas
You and I may have had some similar lessons in our respective seance rooms. What did you find that the disappointed people expected that was different from what you did? Did they want more or less? |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Burger often suggests using words like "Recreations of..." "Theatrical"... etc. and spends a lot of time building rapport....
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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jamiesalinas Special user Houston 728 Posts |
Experimentalist,
The ones that were disappointed seemed to want a "real" seance. One of my mistakes was to market to local "Ghost Hunters" and "Psychics" without having the word Theatrical in front of "A Re-Creation of a Turn of Century Seance". I also received great reactions and compliments from a majority of members of these groups. I even had a group of athiests who loved it! I think the bottom line was that the ones not happy with my seance had a pre-conceived idea as to what expect and did not get it. I also received a complaint from three attendees about my seance. There main complaint was that they attended a "Magic Show" and not a "Real Seance". I asked what they expected and got no reply to my question but I did apologize that it was not what they expected and geve them a full refund. Despite this issue, we received a lot of positive responses and the Houston Chronicle gave us a four out of four ghost rating for the Halloween season. See the videos on our web site for these satisfied customers at http://www.houstonseance.com. We are planning on a repeat seance in late January or early February. I will let you know how it goes. Jamie Salinas
Jamie Salinas
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Experimentalist Veteran user 356 Posts |
I too found that the pre-concieved notion is a major concern for the seance worker. I also had favorable reviews from the majority of attendees (about 50 in all), but there were a few who had different ideas about what they were getting. I think that this can be easily corrected in the future however.
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Vernest Regular user 169 Posts |
I think that the pre-conceived notion is a variable to the approach to your show. Do you want them to think that it is real? Do you want them to just have some fun with a spooky thing? As much as I am daring, I think that few people would willingly want to be part of a real seance. Lets be honest here, people are very religious, opinionated, and basically very scared of anything out of their control. If they do come, you'll get liberal people. So, again, the pre-conceived notion is a variable of your show since what they think you will do will determine the kind of audience you will get, thus having to adjust your approach to satisfy that frame of mind, and your show changes shape.
But why should it? The REAL question to you all is if it is possible to make your show be so mind-controlling, dominant enough, and gentle but aggressive to break a pre-conceived notion, replace it with what is going on (what YOU want to show them), and leave them thinking that they came and saw something much better than they expected? I have seen plays that I have had some pre-conceived thoughts about it, became slightly disappointed the moment I realized it wasn't what I expected, but at the end of the play satisfied my interest in a different way. Not the way I expected, but I was still worth going to it. Yes, I kept an open mind, but as performers we know that it is possible to guide the audience towards the experience (opening their mind). So if you don't like card tricks where I have to count cards...I'll put something into the thing that, in the end, will blow your mind away! Just a thought...might be wrong, but just a thought... |
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DrNorth Veteran user North Starr Entertainment, Harrisburg PA 364 Posts |
I have been going through my old books and booklets on Horror Magic and Spook shows and seance's. I do feel like, as in any form of magic, that sometimes we do need to progress and other times keep to the theme.
In the film "The illusionist" we saw a magician do spectral manifestations that today would freak people out, but not at all historically accurate to what the Victorian seance attendees saw. I was disappointed at first but made a rather interesting observation. Today's jaded audience would have laughed out loud at what they would have seen had the film makers shown a true Victorian show, why? Because most would have known the tricks, or seen through them. Much like today's CGI effects vs. the old style effects, most are very obvious to our eyes today. But by going the way they did we got a chance to experience what those audiences probably did. They had nothing to compare it to so for that audience it worked. Looking at the glow in the dark effect touted in the older spook show books, no modern audience would be fooled at all by them But Berger takes the glowing idea and tones it down by making it a blob and not so bright and NOT a watch-face green glow. So yes, we need to keep up with expectations and modernize our effects but I still think the archetype of a Victorian prop and old dusty props is more valid that modern stuff. Not to say that modern effects don't scare. Those CGI ghosts in the Ring movie were pretty creepy, but they where too good in the 1999 remake of The Haunting, and so didn't so much scare me as make me say, *** That is a cool effect. "For it shows things that were, and things that are, and things that yet may be. But which it that he sees, even the wisest cannot always tell" ~Galadriel "A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes." |
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Experimentalist Veteran user 356 Posts |
--- Not to say that modern effects don't scare. Those CGI ghosts in the Ring movie were pretty creepy, but they where too good in the 1999 remake of The Haunting, and so didn't so much scare me as make me say, *** That is a cool effect. ---
When I saw the original "The Haunting" with a group of friends, we were so tense that an unexpected sound in the house made us all hit the ceiling. And as you know, the primary "special effects" in that movie were sound and inference. That's what I'd love to be able to capture in a seance presentation. Although I realize that's a tall order. |
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