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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Feminine Mystique » » Equality (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Sealegs
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Inner circle
The UK, Portsmouth
2583 Posts

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Am I alone in thinking that having a section devoted to women magicians is demeaning to women?

Why not a section for small people, or fat people, or anyone else that doesn't fit into whatever reference points describe the mean average magician.

It's as insulting as the 'Ladies Prize' catagory that the British Ring of the IBM used to have in it's annual competition. It suggests that women need their own catagory and can't compete with the men.

Neal
Neal Austin

"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
Jaz
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Inner circle
NJ, U.S.
6112 Posts

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You're alone.
The section was mage by the ladies request to discuss the way they're treated by the magic community and the laity, clothing issues and other women issues in general.

It has little or nothing to do with competing with men.

Quote:
Why not a section for small people, or fat people, or anyone else that doesn't fit into whatever reference points describe the mean average magician.

Well, whether overweight, small, or whatever, those folks are still males or females.

The suggestion of having a section for physically challenged magicians as well as performing for physically challenged audiences was suggested but no word yet.

How far should the Café go with categorizing people types?
Tina I
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Oslo/ Norway
194 Posts

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I cant say I find it demeaning in any way. I think it's really nice actually. It's nice simply because there *are* differences between male and female and some problems are highly specific to each gender. Equality is nice where equality is possible but denying the differences tend to only increase the gap...

Tina
Margarette
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Memphis area
956 Posts

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I do not find this section demeaning towards women. In fact, I was happy when this section was formed. There are issues specific to women that we do occasionally want to discuss seriously and not have some smart aleck answers given. Take a look at some of the topics here....just how would a topic on menstruation have been responded to had it not been here?

Margarette
The only stupid question is the one not asked.
Autumn Morning Star
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Grammar Hostess
Today, I corrected grammar in
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Quote:
On 2007-11-11 08:59, neal austin wrote:
Am I alone in thinking that having a section devoted to women magicians is demeaning to women?

Why not a section for small people, or fat people, or anyone else that doesn't fit into whatever reference points describe the mean average magician.

It's as insulting as the 'Ladies Prize' catagory that the British Ring of the IBM used to have in it's annual competition. It suggests that women need their own catagory and can't compete with the men.

Neal

Neal,
When someone is a member of an under-represented group in a particular field, they may encounter resistance within the field. This is why laws were created in America regarding equal-opportunity hiring, schooling, etc. Sadly, equal opportunity happens very slowly unless it is fostered in some way. Laws are not a solution to the problem, but an attempt to level the playing field.

Many males do not want women in their tree house. Most of us ladies have had the ladder yanked out numerous times. There are outstanding female magicians available, but look at who is hired to work the conventions: Guys. The big conventions bring in ladies in the form of European performers who juggle and do acrobatics. It is tokenism at its finest, and therein lies the deepest insult. (Up goes the tree house ladder and we are left at the bottom.)

In addition, there are issues that women discuss which can be taken wrong in a male-dominated forum: Big breasts that get in the way of a dove load, long hair that snags in a particular prop, and so much more. If we write about our breasts or body in a male-dominated magic forum, we are guaranteed to be hit on, both in the forum and behind the scenes in our PM's.

The greatest help that the women's forum provides is accessible contact between other female magicians. Believe me, our private messages to each other help us more than you could ever know!

So to conclude, I hear and understand what you are saying. In a perfect world, your question could be answered differently. I do agree with you on the question regarding a "Ladies Prize" in magic. That one absolutely smacks of sexism. I wish they would give it to me so I could turn it down. Thanks for being concerned, Neil. You have a great deal of insight into women's issues.
Wonder is very necessary in life. When we're little kids, we're filled with wonder for the world - it's fascinating and miraculous. A lot of people lose that. They become cynical and jaded, especially in modern day society. Magic renews that wonder.
Doug Henning
Maritess
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165 Posts

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I totally agree Neal, this is a little weird, but also necessary in some way, women in magic are still exploring how to create a solidarity and support system which we desparately need.
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