The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Phenomenon: A Lesson in When to Stop (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
magicinsight
View Profile
Inner circle
3699 Posts

Profile of magicinsight
One of the most difficult things for a lawyer to do correctly is cross-examination and to know when to stop talking and asking questions. Sometimes a single question is the best and then to sit down. The peformers last night, I think, failed to sit down and to stop talking at the right time. They unecessarily kept on expanding on the effect until the impact of the entire effect was diminished.

Super's effect was good but he should have stopped without producing the motorcycle. The motocycle production was too much magic and out of place.

Guy's bending effects were terrific (even though he could have used a more visual bend for the initial bend) and should have stopped after causing the bowl of the spoon to break without doing the ridiculous bending stop sign. This absurd bending effect diminished the validity of his previous spoon bending.

The post card/Eiffel Tower effect was very good but he should have stopped after the drawing of the Eiffel Tower was shown without doing the display of the drawing by the audience which was not credible and took away from the original strong effect. Again, too much magic at the end of a solid mentalism effect ruined the mentalism effect.

WOuld you agree that these are valid examples of doing too much and that sometimes a little less is more?

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Jim-Callahan
View Profile
V.I.P.
5018 Posts

Profile of Jim-Callahan
It depends in this case what you are being paid to do.

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10574 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
Super should have stopped if he wanted to be doing what some define as pure "mentalism" - however, to be the Phenom and win $250K he IMHO was wise not to stop and go all magicky - visual sells big to large audiences and TV - think Berglas... Super, I am sure (maybe), would not claim to be a mentalist - but just Mike Super, Man of Mystery. He has never pretended to be anything else. So, I think it was great. Materialzing an object from thoughts is very strong and magic - but recall, Uri and Criss keep talking about this as if it is all magic a lot of the time. Super is kicking ass because of this.

same with Guy - he is catching on to what it takes to win.... big visuals... Supersized Magic (want fries with that) - and sure enough it knocked GM out. And the audience LOVED it. (Again, don't think I'm disagreeing with you - I am saying if they want to win PHENOM, this is the tact to take).

same with GM - they are getting the format angle... but he is too late.

But yep, I agree - what they did became mental MAGIC. But, perhaps that was what Phenom is all about... becuase the show really is a Flying Dutchman... and since Super's effects are so savvy a fit... the show itself is becoming aligned to support it.

But again, the show is really about being the "Phenomenon, the next big mentalist" which is not actually a mentalist.

All this labels suck anyway IMHO.

Say, you forgot to mention Raven's 3rd variation of death defying... like the Goldberg variations in music?!?!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Hoff Man
View Profile
Loyal user
Ohio
258 Posts

Profile of Hoff Man
Quote:
On 2007-11-15 09:55, magicinsight wrote:
One of the most difficult things for a lawyer to do correctly is cross-examination and to know when to stop talking and asking questions. Sometimes a single question is the best and then to sit down. The peformers last night, I think, failed to sit down and to stop talking at the right time. They unecessarily kept on expanding on the effect until the impact of the entire effect was diminished.

Super's effect was good but he should have stopped without producing the motorcycle. The motocycle production was too much magic and out of place.

Guy's bending effects were terrific (even though he could have used a more visual bend for the initial bend) and should have stopped after causing the bowl of the spoon to break without doing the ridiculous bending stop sign. This absurd bending effect diminished the validity of his previous spoon bending.

The post card/Eiffel Tower effect was very good but he should have stopped after the drawing of the Eiffel Tower was shown without doing the display of the drawing by the audience which was not credible and took away from the original strong effect. Again, too much magic at the end of a solid mentalism effect ruined the mentalism effect.

WOuld you agree that these are valid examples of doing too much and that sometimes a little less is more?

Michael


I see it as an example of a mentalism, (or magic) “kicker” as opposed to the climax of a routine. Opinions about kickers are as varied as the performers who use them.

Steve
magicinsight
View Profile
Inner circle
3699 Posts

Profile of magicinsight
Thank you all for your insightful comments and opinions. Jim, you are certainly correct that it all dpeends what they are being "paid" to perform. Dr. Spector, I totally agree with you that Mike Super got it and got what sells right away whereas the others are just finally catching on. It's showbiz and the big flashy productions are eye candy and that is what people like. Now that I have read your comments, I now think what they did was in fact appropriate for the show's format.

THank you again for your time and thoughts.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Alewishus
View Profile
Inner circle
parts unknown
1211 Posts

Profile of Alewishus
Magicinsight, I concur with your assesment.

Funny thing, when my ten year old son saw the motorcycle appear, he blurted out, "That's just a magic trick!"
He then looked at me with such contempt I could only respond with,
"Yeah, you're right."
The Eran thing was funny too - he could barely make it up the stairs and yet he avoided the hazards and when he got to the end he groped with his foot to find the edge.

One foot farther to the left and he would have missed the mat, dang!

One bit o' advice - don't put the 'dangerous' things in plexiglass boxes, that way you don't have to do that comical high steppin'. All I thought during the demonstration was not "what if he steps in one of the boxes" but " I hope he doesn't step on the edge of one of those boxes and falls over, he could really hurt himself doing that!"



A.
Sack subs, ok Ross?
We miss you asper.
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10574 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
I guess next week we'll see all the good stuff (if we are lucky) cuz now voting is over, what CA and Uri have to say means squat - so I am assuming everyone gets to do a bit... I hope... ooops... forgot the 3 minute rule...

But I am looking for some street close up mentalism / mental magic.... what the heck... if its televised I'm happy, too bad for the studio audience.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Tom Jorgenson
View Profile
Inner circle
LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA
4452 Posts

Profile of Tom Jorgenson
I think the premise of 'nothing there, it's invisible cause I said it is.' was ludicrous. Insulting to everyone's intelligence. Bad Mitox! Bad Mitox! Did he HIPPMOTIZE the entire watching TV audience too? I'm thinking it would have been more realistic if he'd have shown it, but covered, and kept it in view. Then, just removed the cover to show the result...

The stop sign was just stupid. Nobody would believe he could bend that with his mind when magicians do so much more with tricks. Again, unbelievable.

I predict next week we get tigers in boxes.

Will the ejectees get to perform next week????? Anybody know?
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10574 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
How did George W get elected?
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
RileyG
View Profile
Special user
Las Vegas
833 Posts

Profile of RileyG
Quote:
On 2007-11-15 13:17, Dr Spektor wrote:
How did George W get elected?


He didn't...
Signed,
Riley G Matthews Jr
SAG-AFTRA actor
Www.RileyG.com
Dr Spektor
View Profile
Eternal Order
Carcosa
10574 Posts

Profile of Dr Spektor
Exactly!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
DT3
View Profile
Inner circle
Hill Valley
1917 Posts

Profile of DT3
Dr. Spek...it's a fun bit of irony that you compared Raven to the Goldberg Variations. Derren Brown has said more than once that it is his favorite piece of music (he even used it as a soundtrack to The Devil's Picturebook).

Ironic because of E. Raven's blatant rip off of Derren's finale to his S.A.S. officer demonstration.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't an accident on your part.

Well played.

D.
modernmindreader
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of modernmindreader
The stop sign thing was actually a tribute to Geller. He has earning brownie points with Uri. lol

Uri has bent many things other than spoons... one of them was a sign post.
~Jason Profit
Make up your OWN mind...
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2657 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
It's true that some performers gild the lily a bit much but we have to consider the venue here. Performers on PHENOMENON are expected to go above and beyond, outdoing one another, even if it does come off a bit cheesy at times.
nboisen
View Profile
Loyal user
286 Posts

Profile of nboisen
So, in other words, in order to win the show, the contestants are tacking on mental magic endings to otherwise pure mentalism routines.

I understand the Lior won the Israeli version, with Ehud coming in second.

Question: Did Lior and Ehud need to do the same thing over there to win?
Or is it only necessary in the Americanized version? And, if so, I wonder why...
Decomposed
View Profile
Eternal Order
High Desert
11965 Posts

Profile of Decomposed
All of them back for the grand finale.

Are you ready?
Steven Conner
View Profile
Inner circle
2436 Posts

Profile of Steven Conner
Quote:
On 2007-11-15 13:17, Dr Spektor wrote:
How did George W get elected?


The same way Bill C did.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
John Nesbit
View Profile
Inner circle
United States
1418 Posts

Profile of John Nesbit
Quote:
On 2007-11-20 07:34, Steven Conner wrote:
The same way Bill C did.


Straying "off topic" here ? Hmm....
Mind Guerrilla
View Profile
Inner circle
Queens, NY
2657 Posts

Profile of Mind Guerrilla
Quote:
On 2007-11-20 07:57, johnjnesbit wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-20 07:34, Steven Conner wrote:
The same way Bill C did.


Straying "off topic" here ? Hmm....

I'm not so sure it's off topic.
Doesn't George carlin call voting the "illusion" of choice? Smile
John Nesbit
View Profile
Inner circle
United States
1418 Posts

Profile of John Nesbit
Quote:
On 2007-11-19 16:17, Mind Guerilla wrote:
It's true that some performers gild the lily a bit much but we have to consider the venue here. Performers on PHENOMENON are expected to go above and beyond, outdoing one another, even if it does come off a bit cheesy at times.


You said it so well here. This is indeed the essence of the thread.

Best
John
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Phenomenon: A Lesson in When to Stop (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL