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The Magic Cafe Forum Index ŧ ŧ Magic names and the media ŧ ŧ Do we need a separate forum just for Criss Angel? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Drake
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 16:17, Lord Of The Horses wrote:

I believe Criss Angel should have limited his role to being a judge and not having any saying about how Jim Callahan chose to present his effect.


This is what I think killed the whole show. The performer works to achieve a level of reality and Angel tells the audience it's fake setting the stage for the next guy to step up and try to get the audience to believe his routine or at least make them have doubts. If any had doubts after that act.. Angel again reminded everyone its also fake.

Very counterproductive unless you're trying to bore your audience.

Best,

Tim
CinChiller
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 16:27, Mind Guerilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-25 15:24, CinChiller wrote:
How would you define a mentalist?

In spite of my bad english, I hope you understand my opinion and what I mean this time.


Your English is fine.


Thanks, hard to believe, but thanks. Smile



Quote:
On 2007-11-25 16:27, Mind Guerilla wrote:
I'm almost afraid to define "mentalist" because I'm sure no matter how I do it, a group of angry villagers will start lighting up torches.



That could happen and Iīm afraid that CA wonīt help you. Smile


Quote:
On 2007-11-25 16:27, Mind Guerilla wrote:
How about this: a magician who does mind reading tricks? (Locking myself in a bomb shelter)



Aiie! This depends on the magician. But a magician who does mind reading between a sponge balls and a dove pan (or between flying from roof to roof and walking on water) isnīt a mentalist for sure. And this is the problem and that what I tried to explain with credibility.

Of course is a mentalist a magician, but not automatically vice versa. The principles are different and if you try to mix them, you could just become a magician who does a mind reading trick and then mentalism becomes boring and embarrassing - what a shame.
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Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 17:32, CinChiller wrote:
Aiie! This depends on the magician. But a magician who does mind reading between a sponge balls and a dove pan (or between flying from roof to roof and walking on water) isnīt a mentalist for sure. And this is the problem and that what I tried to explain with credibility.

Of course is a mentalist a magician, but not automatically vice versa. The principles are different and if you try to mix them, you could just become a magician who does a mind reading trick and then mentalism becomes boring and embarrassing - what a shame.


Mentalism boring? Never! Heh heh.

"Of course a mentalist is a magician?" I can see those angry torch-wielding villagers turning in your direction now!

A coin magician doesn't bristle when you call him that. He doesn't insist on being called a "Coinist." A card magician doesn't insist on being called a "Cardist." I agree they are all magicians. So what's up with some mentalists trying to distance themselves from their fellow magicians? I'm reminded of that British sitcom KEEPING UP APPEARANCES where the lead characters insists that her last name, "Bucket," be pronounced "Bouquet." Smile
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 16:45, Lord Of The Horses wrote:
or not.Oh, and btw, what is really zenlike is your nick "MIND guerilla", since to do that you should first have a mind.


May I borrow yours since you're not using it? Of course, I kid! Smile
CinChiller
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 19:07, Mind Guerilla wrote:

Mentalism boring? Never! Heh heh.

"Of course a mentalist is a magician?" I can see those angry torch-wielding villagers turning in your direction now!



I donīt hope so and I donīt think that all mentalists are so ignorant to backbite their roots. Smile

Quote:
On 2007-11-25 19:07, Mind Guerilla wrote:

A coin magician doesn't bristle when you call him that. He doesn't insist on being called a "Coinist." A card magician doesn't insist on being called a "Cardist.


Why should they? A "coinist" a "cardist" or an "illusionist" shouldnīt try to tell their audience that they donīt work with (slight of hand ) tricks. No one will believe them, if they tell them that their "illusion" has something to do with suggestion, body language, psychological effects or other possible explanations mentalists use. They are proud if the spectator says "wow, what slight of hand" (also if the trick has nothing to do with slight of hand).
Slight of hand and misdirection is the "official" method a magician use. The technique is the solution for their wonders and itīs ok as long as they are one step ahead and the audience wonīt catch the magician. A magic trick also works without a good story or a motivation if the technique is good.

Mentalism works completly different. The motivation and the story is the most important thing and part of the effect. In the eyes of the audience you do "something" with "nothing" - and very often "something" is better than "nothing" Smile (with best wishes to jim)

A mentalist, where the spectator says after his effect "wow, what slight of hand", has done something wrong.
The mentalist trys to avoid any kind of visible technique or unnatural movements, because itīs "slight of mind" not "slight of hand" what he presents.

Itīs hard to explain and much harder in a foreign language. Furthermore there is no "official" explanation of the difference between magic and mentalism. So itīs more question of personal view.

This is my try of explanation in short words and Iīm sure some mentalists have a different opinion and itīs ok, as long as we all reach the goal to entertain the audience in the best way and create a miracle and not just a trick or a puzzle.

The best way to notice the difference between a magician and a mentalist is the reaction or feedback of the audience.
If they ask you if itīs really possible what you told them and believe your story - you are a mentalist.
If they think itīs slight of hand and or misdirection - you are a magician.
If they ask you why you have done it - you are a bad magician. Smile
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Mariagi
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[quote]On 2007-11-25 20:36, CinChiller wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-25 19:07, Mind Guerilla wrote:

Quote:
On 2007-11-25 19:07, Mind Guerilla wrote:

A coin magician doesn't bristle when you call him that. He doesn't insist on being called a "Coinist." A card magician doesn't insist on being called a "Cardist.


Why should they? A "coinist" a "cardist" or an "illusionist" shouldnīt try to tell their audience that they donīt work with (slight of hand ) tricks. No one will believe them, if they tell them that their "illusion" has something to do with suggestion, body language, psychological effects or other possible explanations mentalists use. They are proud if the spectator says "wow, what slight of hand" (also if the trick has nothing to do with slight of hand).
Slight of hand and misdirection is the "official" method a magician use. The technique is the solution for their wonders and itīs ok as long as they are one step ahead and the audience wonīt catch the magician. A magic trick also works without a good story or a motivation if the technique is good.

Mentalism works completly different. The motivation and the story is the most important thing and part of the effect. In the eyes of the audience you do "something" with "nothing" - and very often "something" is better than "nothing" Smile (with best wishes to jim)


that's why mind gorilla never get that. he is a coinist and how could he understand what mentalism is ??
Dr Spektor
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 17:02, CinChiller wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-25 15:56, Dr Spektor wrote:

Nono.. I keep telling you - I'M Batman


Ok, ok, you are batman. So long as I can carry on being spiderman, itīs ok for me. Smile


Sure thing Petey!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Dr Spektor
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People really need to read the VALIS trilogy by Philip K Dick and get with reality.... its all in the POV, man!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 20:36, CinChiller wrote:
This is my try of explanation in short words and Iīm sure some mentalists have a different opinion and itīs ok, as long as we all reach the goal to entertain the audience in the best way and create a miracle and not just a trick or a puzzle.


But what if your motivation is not to entertain but, rather, to manipulate and control people (including but not limited to the recently bereaved)?
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 21:01, Mariagi wrote:
that's why mind gorilla never get that. he is a coinist and how could he understand what mentalism is ??


Actually, I'm a fascist.
John Nesbit
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Meaning that you perform Face manipulations.
CinChiller
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 12:15, Mind Guerilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-25 20:36, CinChiller wrote:
This is my try of explanation in short words and Iīm sure some mentalists have a different opinion and itīs ok, as long as we all reach the goal to entertain the audience in the best way and create a miracle and not just a trick or a puzzle.


But what if your motivation is not to entertain but, rather, to manipulate and control people (including but not limited to the recently bereaved)?


I donīt know, this is not my motivation.
I just to try to entertain and maximum to try to create the illusion I manipulated the spectator but always with the goal to entertain.

Why do you ask? Do you want to control people and for what?
If you really want to manipulate and control peoples mind you should ask scientology but not a honest mentalist.
The Gaff Book Collection - the right tool for your booktest.
Music for mentalism and psychic entertainment.
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Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 14:37, CinChiller wrote:
Do you want to control people and for what?
If you really want to manipulate and control peoples mind you should ask scientology but not a honest mentalist.


THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK
CinChiller
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 18:00, Mind Guerilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-26 14:37, CinChiller wrote:
Do you want to control people and for what?
If you really want to manipulate and control peoples mind you should ask scientology but not a honest mentalist.


THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK


Iīm sure youīll know why.
The Gaff Book Collection - the right tool for your booktest.
Music for mentalism and psychic entertainment.
Visit: http://stores.lulu.com/dankworth01
The Magic Cafe Forum Index ŧ ŧ Magic names and the media ŧ ŧ Do we need a separate forum just for Criss Angel? (0 Likes)
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