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michaelmystic2003
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Recently, I have become obsessed with Luke Jermay's work, let alone suggestion and mentalism. Many routines work for me, however no matter how hard I try or how precisely I study his work, some effects just will not work. It is getting beyond frustratiing for me as well as discouraging.

I own most of Jermay's products, and have been studying them like they are the holy grail of all that is magical. I have watched the performances on his DVD Skullduggery tons of times as well as the explanations, and have read his books over and over in great detail. I try to perform his effects as precisely as possible. I need help.

Could anyone please help me get these mentalism pieces to work? I mean, things like Jermay's ESP routine from Building Blocks, the Burst Bubble Suggestion, and most notably RGM, have very rarely worked. In fact, I can't recall RGM ever working despite my confidence.

Any help that anybody can give, either here or via PM, would be immensely appreciated. This is getting frustrating for me.

Thank you greatly.
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Mariagi
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Its not so easy to explain you: you should first be aware that some of the effects you mention failed on Jermay too when he tried to perform those in his lectures for magicians

not always but some of the time.

and he is experienced at this kind of stuff. so its impossible help you to make them work with just one quick suggestion posted here I think. its more like you need to reharse and reharse and reharse and then you need to get the 'knack' of it which come only through time and experience
Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 20:30, Michaelmystic2003 wrote:
Recently, I have become obsessed with Luke Jermay's work, let alone suggestion and mentalism. Many routines work for me, however no matter how hard I try or how precisely I study his work, some effects just will not work. It is getting beyond frustratiing for me as well as discouraging.

I own most of Jermay's products, and have been studying them like they are the holy grail of all that is magical. I have watched the performances on his DVD Skullduggery tons of times as well as the explanations, and have read his books over and over in great detail. I try to perform his effects as precisely as possible. I need help.

Could anyone please help me get these mentalism pieces to work? I mean, things like Jermay's ESP routine from Building Blocks, the Burst Bubble Suggestion, and most notably RGM, have very rarely worked. In fact, I can't recall RGM ever working despite my confidence.

Any help that anybody can give, either here or via PM, would be immensely appreciated. This is getting frustrating for me.

Thank you greatly.


I don't understand why you hold him in such high regard if you can't get any of it to work.

I watched SKULLDUGGERY and was troubled by how Mr. Jermay treated his spectators. After the performance they did not seem entertained. To the contrary, they seemed to me to be ill at ease and disturbed at what they had just experienced.

One effect (non effect?) requires simply igniting a piece of flash paper and then telling the spectator that this has cured her of one of her phobias. Although Mr. Jermay disclaims Mentalist-as-Therapist in the explanations part of the DVD it seems like he never got around to telling the spectator it was all just in fun.

Did you ever consider the possibility that maybe the effects simply tend not to work more often than they do? The pulse stop routine seems to rely on a nervous spectator who is unable to find a pulse in the first place. So it would seem that your choice of spectator may be crucial here. If you choose a registered nurse or doctor you may have a wee bit of trouble.

You seem baffled that you can't get RGM to work. Do you actually expect yourself to be able to make someone forget a thought? Again, choice of spectator may be key here. Choose someone who seems nervous, suggestible and maybe not too bright and your success rate may improve. If you're looking for an effect like RGM you may want to check out "Memory Lapse" on Jay Sankey's DVD, 22 BLOWS TO THE HEAD. It does not use playing cards and was recently expanded upon in Banachek's "Psychological Subtleties 2" in an effect called, "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little...What?"
r1z08
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Just FYI, I have seen Luke Jermay, Derren Brown and David Berglas all do the pulse stop routine using registered nurses without fail.
Decomposed
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I have his Coral Fang and I really like the way he thinks. I have been rehearsing Dangerous Opener and hope to use it very soon.

I think if you take a routine of his (or any published routine) and adapt/tailor it to your own style, you may become more successful. I did this with Dangerous Opener.
Some things you read or watch over and over and nothing will click. It may just not be for you even though it reads like a powerful routine. The real test is what the spectator's think.

Using an item then revisiting it later may better suit one's needs as far as adding it again into their show again. This all works for me anyways.
LLL
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To me RGM is one of the easiest effests to perform off skullduggery.
Michael, just out of curriousity, are you reading any other books on psychology, or even this area? Although There are some good ideas in the books, a general understanding of psychology is required too.
mescalito
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tincture
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Try "The Forgotten" instead of RGM. Same effect but works every time.
Vincent.Lynch
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Maybe you should take up some hypnosis training, it will help..
Y2John
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I am not too keen on Jermays material, and so have not really given any time to those you speak of, but I think it would be best to learn from varying sources, aswell as maybe looking into some form of hypnosis.
Also as was already said, choice of participant will greatly change the chances of failure or success with those style of routines.
The only thing I have to add to what has already been said is, though I can't explain it well, to build the specs belief in you before attempting those.
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Quote:
On 2007-11-26 04:14, r1z08 wrote:
Just FYI, I have seen Luke Jermay, Derren Brown and David Berglas all do the pulse stop routine using registered nurses without fail.


Yes but not all methods rely on suggestion ;-) The presentation can be all wrapped up in fancy pseudo suggestion paper and a big red bow, Id rather have a 100% sure fire method and dress it in suggestion babble than have to rely on it for paid gigs.
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kriskraze
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Coral Fang has some great material. Most of his other work is weak. In the same league as Kenton.

Remember, if a trick doesn't work - it means that YOU are the one who's not trying hard enough.
Energizer
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So what do you guys do when you mess up a suggestion based effect then, eh? Eh?

What did Jermay do at the lectures where he messed up?
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
Waters
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I am a big fan of Luke's work. I certainly have not mastered many of his methods, but I have had a lot of fun working with them. I think the most effective routines are one's that combine "pure" and reliable methods. I not nearly as capable performer as he.


Please forgive my audacity...

However, I do have some routines that I believe are much more accessible than most. They are nearly all based upon psychological principles or suggestion. They ALL WORK ROUTINELY! My work is "blue collar" suggestion. Real work for the common guy (like me).

Read here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=159


With Regards,

Sean
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Quote:
On 2007-11-25 22:09, Mind Guerilla wrote:

I don't understand why you hold him in such high regard if you can't get any of it to work.

I watched SKULLDUGGERY and was troubled by how Mr. Jermay treated his spectators. After the performance they did not seem entertained. To the contrary, they seemed to me to be ill at ease and disturbed at what they had just experienced.

One effect (non effect?) requires simply igniting a piece of flash paper and then telling the spectator that this has cured her of one of her phobias. Although Mr. Jermay disclaims Mentalist-as-Therapist in the explanations part of the DVD it seems like he never got around to telling the spectator it was all just in fun.

Did you ever consider the possibility that maybe the effects simply tend not to work more often than they do? The pulse stop routine seems to rely on a nervous spectator who is unable to find a pulse in the first place. So it would seem that your choice of spectator may be crucial here. If you choose a registered nurse or doctor you may have a wee bit of trouble.

You seem baffled that you can't get RGM to work. Do you actually expect yourself to be able to make someone forget a thought? Again, choice of spectator may be key here. Choose someone who seems nervous, suggestible and maybe not too bright and your success rate may improve. If you're looking for an effect like RGM you may want to check out "Memory Lapse" on Jay Sankey's DVD, 22 BLOWS TO THE HEAD. It does not use playing cards and was recently expanded upon in Banachek's "Psychological Subtleties 2" in an effect called, "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little...What?"


Good God! I agree with MG!!!
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michaelmystic2003
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Thank you all for your advice! I will have to study a bit more, and maybe change thigs around a bit. However, I am very grateful that you all took the time to share your thoughts and help me understand this whole area a bit more.

Tincture, where can I find The Forgotten? Also, to anyone who performs RGM with success, what do you specifically do to make it work? How do you choose your spectator? Have you memorized exactly what Jermay's patter says?
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Waters
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On RGM:

I have actually mentioned to the participant that Napoleon Hill once said, "thoughts are things". I tend to agree

I have the participant select and look at the card (a la Jermay), then I simply have look at them and say no more. I now mention that I would like to place something in their mind for a moment. I attempt to send a thought to them... a triangle and a circle (with accompanying suggestion).

If this works (as it usually does) I quickly look them in the eye an mention that they can no longer "remember" their card. I perform all the nuances that Luke mentions. They get "off track" and often cannot remember the card. I mention that we cannot forget anything, we simply can only replace a thought with another. In this way, our minds work like "bumper cars" and a thought can be "removed" by taking it out of the "frame". Sending them a thought (the old force) startles them and genuinely serves as a "pattern interrupt". The reason it works is the truth, the new "thought" which you placed in their mind replaces the old.


Sean
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With building blocks, just add some of the suggestions in with your normal surefire work, if they come off - then excellent..if not, then you still have your main finish to end on...

I liked building blocks, 7 deceptions and coral fang...

please try changing the exact patter, to something that sounds like "you", but obviously containing the important bits too...
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ralphwaldoemerson
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I never cared for the phobia effect, and agree with those who seem to be suggesting it's not good theater. RGM is a favorite, and I can't even remember the last time I failed with it. Sean's description of how to succeed with it is spot on. The key is distraction or "pattern interrupt." Similarly I almost never fail with "For Andruzzi." I do think it's more reliable to use a gaff on yourself, however. You don't need somebody who is nervous or unintelligent. In fact both of those factors will serve to muddy the effect. It will help if you do the effect only after the audience already believes you can do just about anything, and it also helps to use an individual who is rather suggestible.

Other of Lukes 'suggestive' effects I'm a bit more tepid on. Still, I wouldn't agree that his suggestion stuff is like Kenton's. With RGM and "For Andruzzi" he's moved to a much higher level, imo.
michaelmystic2003
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For Andruzzi is excellent, as is his effect, in my opinion, Stuck In A Moment. Thank you for the great advice, and Sean, thank you for your thoughts on the forgetting sequence concept! It helped greatly. How about The Burst Bubble Suggestion? How could I improve with that? It seems like a surefire thing, however it hjas not worked for me yet. Any help is appreciated.

Also, as a side note, whatever happened to that new DVD Jermay was going to release? I believe it was called Induction. any ord on this or thoughts? I was really looking forward to it.
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Energizer
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Yeah, but ... what do people do when their suggestions fail?

What did Luke do at the convention when things didn't work out?

Did he have any lines?
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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