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mindpunisher
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My big question is why bother? These suggestion effects have low impact and aren't worth the sweat. I think mentalists do them for their own satisfaction rather than any spectator or audience.

Much more powerful routines and effects that are sure fire.

I just don't get it.
Waters
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Quote:
On 2007-11-28 06:32, mindpunisher wrote:
My big question is why bother? These suggestion effects have low impact and aren't worth the sweat. I think mentalists do them for their own satisfaction rather than any spectator or audience.

Much more powerful routines and effects that are sure fire.

I just don't get it.


Fair enough, I offered a similar question above. It depends on our personal goals and how you view yourself. I don't think that they have "low-impact", but I can't argue against "it isn't worth the sweat"... that is in the eye of the beholder. Point taken. Properly placed, they have a great purpose.

I have stated my thoughts about that question in an essay...

Sean
Anthony Jacquin
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Hi Sean,

interesting comments regarding the parallel you draw between LJ's Twisting Palm and DB's Fork Bending effect. However I suspect you are off the mark and quite possibly fallen for DB's hypnobabble.

If the fork bend was dual reality not an illusion can you see through the tines to a simpler method?

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

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LLL
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Anthony - The fork bend was a tribute to geller according to Brown - The girls were convincing themselves that the forks were bending - whereas everybody at home could see that they were not. The camera kept on them at all times and the forks were in there hands. Have you seen the clip?

mescalito
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
Anthony Jacquin
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Yes and still think you are missing something.

Read my post again and you might get it.

Anthony
Anthony Jacquin

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Waters
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On 2007-11-28 07:05, Anthony Jacquin wrote:
Hi Sean,

interesting comments regarding the parallel you draw between LJ's Twisting Palm and DB's Fork Bending effect. However I suspect you are off the mark and quite possibly fallen for DB's hypnobabble.

Anthony


Dang! That stuff works over the air-waves. GGRRR!!!

Sean
Anthony Jacquin
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LOL. It certainly seems to.

I plan to treat myself to some of your work soon - the reviews sound great.

Ant
Anthony Jacquin

Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis
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Waters
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By the way...

I am not arguing in this thread for a "hands-clinched" use of psychological or suggestive routines. On the contrary, (in a paid public performance) you will find me performing methods that I know will result in a successful denouement. I am merely stating that appropriately placed use of these techniques can add an element of "reailty" for you and for your audience. If that doesn't matter, no problem. It is just one more avenue to entertainment.

I love Looch's SAD and honestly like straightlined approaches to many routines. A great example of this type of combination can be found in the work of Patrick Redford. He uses "Prevaricator" effectively "couched" as a preamble effect to his brilliant routine, "Fabricated Truth" (if I recall correctly). This is what I am talking about. Not a mindless "Emperor's Clothes" view regarding the effectiveness of "suggestion". This should be more evident as you re-read my posts.


Sean
Waters
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Thanks Anthony!
I appreciate your interest. I think you will find a "marriage" between the psychological and the practical in my approach. I sincerely think a man of your skills and background will enjoy it. I must have been posting my previous comment while you were.

Sean
LLL
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Anthony great thinking.

mescalito
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
bobser
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On 2007-11-28 05:53, mescalitoeyes wrote:
'Bobser- really? You would be able to teach them a twisted palm without the psychological subtlties?'

and

'my opinion is that if you are presenting a psychological effect, you should at least know what your talking about.. would you say this isn't true?'
mescalito


First of all yes, of course that effect is teachable without the knowledge of psychological subtlty. Surely this could be called 'something else' NOT relating to psychology in any way, shape or form?
And secondly, No, the performer does NOT need to know what they're talking about (necessarily) in order to perform what is aften CALLED a psychological effect. But it doesn't half make some mentalists feel important to believe (falsely) that they are somehow academically trained (although some are, including myself) in psychology.
Please understand the whole thrust of what I'm saying: "A knowledge of psychology is not needed (although it does help)in order to perform mentalism succesfully."
Bobser
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Mind Guerrilla
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On 2007-11-28 06:32, mindpunisher wrote:
My big question is why bother? These suggestion effects have low impact and aren't worth the sweat. I think mentalists do them for their own satisfaction rather than any spectator or audience.


I tend to agree. I watched SKULLDUGGERRY and found it lacking in one major respect: it wasn't entertaining. In their interviews after the show, the spectators didn't appear tickled by what they had just experienced. To the contrary, they seemed a bit shellshocked, as if they had just been through some minor ordeal. Is anyone out there aiming for this reaction?
LLL
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Bobser - I guess that we're not going to agree on this, but I respect your opinion.

mescalito
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2007-11-28 09:55, mescalitoeyes wrote:
Bobser - I guess that we're not going to agree on this, but I respect your opinion.
mescalito

Hey mescalito, that's ok. And I yours. All the best.
Bobser
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bobser
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Quote:
On 2007-11-28 09:48, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-28 06:32, mindpunisher wrote:
My big question is why bother? These suggestion effects have low impact and aren't worth the sweat. I think mentalists do them for their own satisfaction rather than any spectator or audience.


I tend to agree. I watched SKULLDUGGERRY and found it lacking in one major respect: it wasn't entertaining. In their interviews after the show, the spectators didn't appear tickled by what they had just experienced. To the contrary, they seemed a bit shellshocked, as if they had just been through some minor ordeal. Is anyone out there aiming for this reaction?


I have to say that both these opinions made me laugh, and to be honest, I'd find it very hard to argue with them. Probably begging the question: was this entertaining? And: should entertaing the audience be important?
Suggested answers from me might be No and YES.
bobser.
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Dr. Eamon
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--------eXtrementalism--------......IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND.....
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Use suggestion, I love it...
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Mind Guerrilla
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Quote:
On 2007-11-28 10:06, bobser wrote:
And: should entertaing the audience be important?
Suggested answers from me might be No and YES.


If entertaining the audience is not your objective, then what is?
harishjose
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The way I have understood, I was taught is that suggestion is like the icing on the cake. Will you serve icing alone? Do people like to eat icing alone? I am pretty sure if you find the right person, he/she will. Remember that you should only serve a little amount of icing at one time. But most people love icing with the cake.
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psychicturtle
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I love suggestion based pieces as many here know, and I use them frequently in my close up - but only after the formal performances. The setting has to be right, and for that I find the setting has to be casual.

And as for those asking 'why bother?' I say this. I have a few effects that I have gained a really strong reputation with. I successfully and consistently perform a couple of my own pieces that use nothing more than words and acting. people have seen me do this at the Blackpool convention. It freaked them out. And there is NO WAY in the world to achieve these effects aside from suggestion and psychology, or stooging. And there is no point if you use a stooge.

Suggestion based effects need no props, nothing written down, and if you do it right you can give the participant an amazing experience. I agree that the pieces on 'Skullduggery' are mostly not suited to stage use, but they are very powerful pieces. Twisted palm in particular...
bobser
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Quote:
On 2007-11-29 00:14, Mind Guerrilla wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-11-28 10:06, bobser wrote:
And: should entertaing the audience be important?
Suggested answers from me might be No and YES.


If entertaining the audience is not your objective, then what is?


I think you;re agreeing with me?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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