The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Fighting the good Fight. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
The Drake
View Profile
Inner circle
2274 Posts

Profile of The Drake
Greeting fellow Café Members,

Here in Grand Illusions we are constantly running into the issue of knockoff illusions. It seems like an endless debate. Amoung all the arguments is the idea that we are helpless against them so why bother to protest. Some of us believe that if we continue to protest them we might just have a victory now and then. Glad to report that this just happened.

You may remember that knockoffs of Origami and other illusions recently appeared on the " World of Illusions" domenico-beltempo.de website. It was then pointed out that the MagicAuction.com website had a banner ad for this website. Myself and others notified Joe at MagicAuction about this and he in turn notified " World of Illusions" that their banner would be removed until the offending knockoffs were removed from the site. MagicAuction certainly didn't want to promote a site selling knockoffs.

Joe just heard back and those illusions have now been removed. A big thanks goes out to Joe and those willing to take a stand for ethics.

Yes I know there are still other knockoffs out there but I'd still call this a victory, proving the point that in some cases something CAN be done about knockoffs.

Best,

Tim
Jack Murray
View Profile
Special user
St. Petersburg Fl.
773 Posts

Profile of Jack Murray
EXCELLENT!!!!!!
gsidhe
View Profile
Inner circle
Michigan
1726 Posts

Profile of gsidhe
Well Done Timothy and everyone else involved.
Keep it up!
Gwyd
SpellbinderEntertainment
View Profile
Inner circle
West Coast
3505 Posts

Profile of SpellbinderEntertainment
If we urge our compeers not to BUY knock-offs,
then there will be no reason to manufacture knock-offs.

Yeah, they may be “cheaper” in the short term budget wise,
but the quality, the subtle deception, and durability are not there.
And they cost more in reputation and investment in the long run.

They hurt the guy performing them,
they hurt the greater magic community,
and THANK YOU Tim and all for keeping the lamps lit!

BRAVO! Education is the best tool to protect creators and creations.

Magically,
Walt
The Drake
View Profile
Inner circle
2274 Posts

Profile of The Drake
Thanks for the nice comments guys but the only heat I take is in debates on the topic here in the Café. LOL I think we really need to say thanks to Joe at MagicAuction.com he's the one who put his $$$$$ on the line to stand by his ethics. He won this time but I know for a fact that he has lost many listings and ads in the past by refusing to list knockoffs.

While he's standing firm on ethics some Mags are setting ethics aside and running knockoff ads for the bucks. This makes it tougher on guys like Joe. If only we all stuck together.. there'd be a lot less market for knockoffs.

Thanks Joe!

Best,

Tim
RJE
View Profile
Inner circle
1848 Posts

Profile of RJE
Here is a strictly hypothetic question.

If I was to build my own Origami (chosen because it has been mentioned)and perform it (I haven't and I don't, hence the hypothetic part) would that be considered ethical or acceptable?

Or, what if I had a friend or a professional carpenter build one for me, would that be considered ethical or acceptable? (Again, I have no intention to do this)

Just being curious.

Rob
The Drake
View Profile
Inner circle
2274 Posts

Profile of The Drake
Quote:
On 2007-12-05 19:50, RJE wrote:
Here is a strictly hypothetic question.

If I was to build my own Origami (chosen because it has been mentioned)and perform it (I haven't and I don't, hence the hypothetic part) would that be considered ethical or acceptable?

Or, what if I had a friend or a professional carpenter build one for me, would that be considered ethical or acceptable? (Again, I have no intention to do this)

Just being curious.

Rob



If someone else owns the rights to ( in this case.. Origami ) then neither you nor any builder should built it without permission from the person who owns the rights.

I think you already knew that but I'm curious to see where you are going with this.

Best,

Tim
Christopher Starr
View Profile
Inner circle
Heart of America
1851 Posts

Profile of Christopher Starr
Rob:

The obvious answer would be NO, it would not be ethical or acceptable to do so.

Chris
Kevin Ridgeway
View Profile
V.I.P.
Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ
1832 Posts

Profile of Kevin Ridgeway
Nor would it be deceptive...please show me any knock off Origami that isn't a piece of garbage. They are only fooling themselves, instead of their audiences.

Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc

Kevin Ridgeway &
Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini
The World's Premier Female Escape Artist

www.LadyHoudini.com

www.livingillusions.com
M-Illusion
View Profile
Special user
549 Posts

Profile of M-Illusion
I have seen one which was deceptive, but never-the-less a knockoff. It has since been destroyed.
hugmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
7444 Posts

Profile of hugmagic
I have recently been corresponding with Alan Shaxon concerning Harbin's Blade of Opah that was described in Eric Lewis's book published by Mike Caveney. It clearly states the rights to manufacture it reside exclusively with John Gaughan. Yet, I see compliments on the workmanshipon the Café under the Workshop heading for which the rights to make clearly does not exist. I doubt very much if John granted the rights to make this. BTW, (as suggested by the builder) furnishing a copy of the book does not grant rights to build it.

Now as for Jim Steinmeyer's Modern Art, if you purchase the book you have the right to build one unit for yourself. Not a half dozen to sell off.

As someone who has constantly fought to keep Marshall effects ( which I own the rights to make) and my own effects, I applaud anyone who takes the high ground. It is a tough thing to do. But it is the only right thing to do.

The only way to stop this is to cut the other guys out. Do not support them financially. That means buying their props or booking acts that use them. It is not an easy fix but it has to be done. There will always be some goofball in a garage someplace who thinks they can make anything they want, cheaper and better and make some money. But if they are not supported, they cannot last..Period!!

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Magic Patrick
View Profile
Inner circle
Minnesota
1586 Posts

Profile of Magic Patrick
I think the the Café should be renamed to TheKnockoffCafe.com. It seems that this is all we are talking about nowadays. Just an observation.

Byudad
SpellbinderEntertainment
View Profile
Inner circle
West Coast
3505 Posts

Profile of SpellbinderEntertainment
It is an important topic.
I've had my act knocked-off,
I've had friend's illusions knocked-off
It hurts everyone in professional magic.
My take anyway,
Walt
asianmagic
View Profile
Regular user
Philadelphia
130 Posts

Profile of asianmagic
*yawn*

You guys have waaaay too much free time...
Magic Patrick
View Profile
Inner circle
Minnesota
1586 Posts

Profile of Magic Patrick
Asianmagic,

Looks like you do too! Smile LOL!!!

BYUDAD
RJE
View Profile
Inner circle
1848 Posts

Profile of RJE
Hehe, I wasn't going anywhere with it. I was just asking.

Rob
61magic
View Profile
Special user
Sacramento California
763 Posts

Profile of 61magic
As long as a market for lost cost illusion exists there will be someone to fill it.
I'm not supporting knock offs so don't get me wrong.
Supply and demand is what is driving this, I don't think telling a magician "don't buy" from some builder will change much, the guy doing the buying is not worried about ethics.
I also don't think pinning the "Scarlett Letter" on the builder will change much either, builders want to make money and the customers are there.
We all may be better off working with IBM/SAM and other magic organizations worldwide to create a builders registry and give a small part of our dues to fund this to allow the legal protection creators need.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
Bill Nuvo
View Profile
Inner circle
3094 Posts or
2747 Posts

Profile of Bill Nuvo
Quote:
On 2007-12-06 22:50, 61magic wrote:

We all may be better off working with IBM/SAM and other magic organizations worldwide to create a builders registry and give a small part of our dues to fund this to allow the legal protection creators need.


How aware are you of politics? It's a nice thought but would likely not happen.
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2007-12-05 22:43, hugmagic wrote:
I have recently been corresponding with Alan Shaxon concerning Harbin's Blade of Opah that was described in Eric Lewis's book published by Mike Caveney. It clearly states the rights to manufacture it reside exclusively with John Gaughan. Yet, I see compliments on the workmanshipon the Café under the Workshop heading for which the rights to make clearly does not exist. I doubt very much if John granted the rights to make this. BTW, (as suggested by the builder) furnishing a copy of the book does not grant rights to build it.


Then why put it into book if you don't want people to build it? I think it rather silly to outline an effect in a book you've written then be surprised when people start to have it built.


Quote:

As someone who has constantly fought to keep Marshall effects ( which I own the rights to make) and my own effects, I applaud anyone who takes the high ground. It is a tough thing to do. But it is the only right thing to do.



Which brings up another question I've never seen answered.

How long can a person tie up the rights to an effect. I've seen many magicians decry the fact that there are far more Zig-Zags out there than copies of Harbin's book and then try to maintain that these are all unauthorized models. If magicians lived in the real world of intellectual property the Zig-Zag would clearly be in the public domain by now as, if it was patented, that would have run out by now making it perfectly legal, and ethical to produce copies or improved versions. The patent for Origami will expire around 2021 so will magicians still be claiming rip-off if someone makes a copy of it after that date?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
The Drake
View Profile
Inner circle
2274 Posts

Profile of The Drake
Quote:
On 2007-12-07 11:16, Payne wrote:
The patent for Origami will expire around 2021 so will magicians still be claiming rip-off if someone makes a copy of it after that date?


Yes! Magicians will claim ripoff..lawyers won't.

I'd say it then belongs in the same category as just about every other illusion out there to which there never was a patent. Legally copyable but not ethically.

Best,

Tim
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Fighting the good Fight. (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL